Forced to catch the ball

[Casper]

Forced pick-ups should be (and still is) "on" - wow the play could get nasty without :-/

Forced catch, should only take effect, when you throw the ball accurately, then the intented receiver must try and catch it (but what if he fails, and the ball after scattering between a few players end in the intented receivers square again?)

[Covenant]

The biggest problem with this is the following. A member of your team passes the ball to a team mate who hasn't had an action this turn. Now the pass is inaccurate and it actually ends up going to the square of a player next to the intended target. This player has allready taken an action and is yet forced to catch it. If he does catch it you then can't do anything else with the ball this turn as he has had his action.

A way aroud this to stop it being too beardy (which i can't really see happening anyway forced pick ups stopped mostof this) is that if a player has taken an action allready, then you should be able to let him decide not to catch it.

In the above example if he could have decided not to catch it, then you would have had a 1 in 8 chance of it scattering again to the player you

intended it to go to in the first place. If this happens then that player can take his action with the ball, possibly for a TD run.

There may be an arguement for letting any player refuse to catch it (like he is surrounded but then is likely to fail the catch anyway) I think that just allowing players who have taken an action allready to automatically fail their catch, seems like a fair proposal.

Some people may think this is unfair because you can just throw to a group of your own players and get lucky. I would say to them this is good coaching for the player to have got into such a position, he still would have needed the lucky scatter.

What does everyone else feel about this?

I agree to you.
It's only fair and good sportsmanship to have the option to catch the ball or let him scatter.
It was one of our first houserules, we introduced inour league.

[Babs]

The issue is whether this is fair:

* Inaccurate pass, caught by a player who has already taken an action.

They are right royally done by as they cannot hand off this turn, due to the fact that handoffs are now no longer a free action.

The issue is really not about mandatory pickups/catches - but about the handoff action people!

=-) Babs.

[Deathwing]

The issue is whether this is fair:

* Inaccurate pass, caught by a player who has already taken an action.

They are right royally done by as they cannot hand off this turn, due to the fact that handoffs are now no longer a free action.

The issue is really not about mandatory pickups/catches - but about the handoff action people!

=-) Babs.

Don't see what hand-offs have to do with anything if I pop the ball loose and it screws me up. It's rare, but it happens.
Recent (and factual) example:
It's 2-2. I blitz a ball carrier deep in his own half. I've got a player within range of scoring with a RR in hand. I get a Pow/Skull..I've got Block, the ball carrier hasn't..cool, down he goes.
At that point I want the ball to scatter anywhere else other than the player who blitzed...it's a simple pick up and score with a RR in hand if it does.
Bugger..it goes to the Blitzing player who's already taken his action.he catches it!
Bugger..that's end of game there and then....but wait..I have a RR..I can use it in order to deliberately try an fail a roll which I have already passed!
I maintain that the above is a ludicrous situation. Is there any other situation in BB where it's advantageous to FAIL?

[Anthony_TBBF]

Agreed, call it what you want but the above example says it all.

[Balrog]

As a BBRC member,
So we either change handoffs back to not be a seperate action (which is a very nice change for the large part) or change pickups to be voluntary, leading to wholesale abuses by people scattering the ball around.

I'm sorry Babs, but 3 years of playing in various leagues where picking up the ball is optional does not lead to any sort of abuse. You just can't abuse a 1d8 random scatter. Also, it opens the game just a little bit, especially for stunty teams.

-Dave

[Deathwing]

I fail to see the need for consistancy between forced pick-ups and forced catches.
Pick ups as opposed to catches have a +1 modifier, Sure Hands applies rather than Catch, and a failed pick up causes a turn-over whereas a failed catch doesn't.
So they are completely different things with different rules already. Why the need to make catching a scattered ball compulsory, if the intent was to prevent 'rucking' tactics?

[Thadrin]

Forced PICK UPS yes. Forced CATCHES, no.

Just makes the game better, for all the reasons Woody goes into. I remember him bitching about that event on here.

[Babs]

Just to return to DW's example.

His blitzer catches the ball. If Handoff's weren't a seperate action, but rather as described on p20 of the Blood Bowl Handbook

A hand-off is a type of very short pass, where the ball is simply handed to a player that is in an adjacent square. A hand-off may be carried out at any time, even part way through another player's move, and does not count as an action for either the player who hands off the ball or the player who receives it. However, the ball may not be handed off more than once per team turn, and the ball may not be handed off in the opponent's turn. A coach is allowed to both hand off and pass the ball in the same turn.

Then we wouldn't have a problem with mandatory catches. Because your blitzer could still hand off the ball to any other player at any time.

Now I'm not advocating a return to this, however it did mean that the problem of mandatory catches was never an issue until the handoff was turned into an action.

So which is better? People seem to be advocating that voluntary catches, mandatory catches, are the way to go.

[Babs]

Balrog,

I wish your league's gentlemanly ways upon all leagues.

I'm sorry Babs, but 3 years of playing in various leagues where picking up the ball is optional does not lead to any sort of abuse. You just can't abuse a 1d8 random scatter. Also, it opens the game just a little bit, especially for stunty teams.

That's fantastic that you haven't had a problem in the leagues you've been a part of. Unfortunately, there is a certain devious strategy or three which these coaches have either not seen, not stooped to, or you've been unphased by.

Which is all a good thing, but it's still not something which I'd advocate as a rule for all. I simply don't think it's fair to our dwarvish BBowlers (amongst others) to have their carefully protected ball scattered out of their carefully crafted protection by below the belt strategies.

[Grumbledook]

I thought this thread was about forced catches not forced pickups? I don't think that anyone has a problem with forced pickups, you have to move your player to the ball, so its an informed choice. Forced catches can happen as a result or a number of random chances, nothing to do with your own choice.

[Deathwing]

Forced pick ups are a separate issue (other than the fact that forced catches seem to be in to keep consistancy), so I've split the thread.

[Longshot]

that's why i named it forced to catch the ball

[Babs]

So people are a much bigger fan of optional catches, with mandatory pickups - over mandatory both with 'free action' handoffs?

Both are valid solutions, however both provide different side effects elsewhere in the game.

[Grumbledook]

I must admit that the changes to handoff have had a great impact on how I have had to play, no more running up to someoen handing off then moving on a bit further to provide the reciepient with some cover to run behind. It has made having to plan the hand off a bit more involving, but as for would i like to change it back to a free action of not have forced catches i am unsure.