Animosity question

[Itchen Masack]

Question might sound obvious but thought I'd check

Are Underworld Skaven and their available Skaven Star Players considered to be of the same race? Or in other words do the UW skaven need to make Animosity rolls when passing/handing off to them?

Dwarves and Chaos Dwarves I'm assuming are different races, so what about the skaven and goblins?

[Shteve0]

Skaven and goblins are different. Skaven and skaven are the same. Dwarfs and Chaos Dwarves are different. Elves and High Elves... Different?

[lunchmoney]

Or in other words do the UW skaven need to make Animosity rolls when passing/handing off to them?

If it came up in my league/tourney I'd allow you to not roll Animosity for a UW Skaven passing to a Skaven Star Player.

[Itchen Masack]

hehe I'm asking cause I've added Skitter to an UW team in Cyanide, but they roll for Animosity to pass to him. Don't know how to stop it and was hoping a loophole made it correct :p

[harvestmouse]

Rulewise: animosity is animosity. The minority race in this case Skaven, suffer from animosity. It is what it is. You can't change it on a client based programme to take race into effect.

Fluffwise: The Creepers were notorious for their 'in dug out' brawls. Between the Skaven side and the Goblin side of the team. They do not get on well. So on TT you could design a team in that animosity only worked when handing off to a different race.

However as a client cannot handle that, and as the rule is kept rather simple. The minority race all have animosity. So no loop hole.

[Itchen Masack]

Thanks Harvest

An UW Thrower passing to Skitter (a skaven) should not roll Animosity right as they are the same race. In game I'm using the UW team roster but have added a regular skaven Gutter runner to it (and pimped him up), so I guess the game treats them as separate races.

I have no idea where/how I could insert a GR into the UW team and make him seem to be genuine UW. So guess I'll just have to suck up the extra animosity rolls for now

[harvestmouse]

The problem is that teams have star players from different races. What's more some star players of one race play for various teams/races. So codingwise Star Players are generally classes as Star Players (race wise). No idea about Cyanide, but most likely this is what they did.

Should he roll for animosity, no. Will he roll for animosity because of client limitations, yes. It's a good point though, and one that coders may want to take note of. Or just go with a general rule that Star Players are an entity of their own. Star trait kind of suggests the same as animosity after all.

[Darkson]

One of the few times I agreed with Force - we all know that Skitter is a Skaven, Brick an Ogre etc but where does it actually say that? Force said (in amongst his mainly stupid ideas) that the Stars should all have their race specified.

I'd say from a stick, to-the-letter reading of the rules that as the Stars don't have a race listed then they don't count as race X for animosity checks, but I'd not play that way, nor expect my opponent to.

[Itchen Masack]

So, just to clarify, Skaven and Underworld Skaven are the same race just as Goblins and Underworld Goblins are the same race.

The underworld ones just mutate because of short term exposure to warpstone, and they have not mutated into a separate race due to long term exposure.

But dwarves and chaos dwarves are not the same race.

As long as these are correct, I understand

[Shteve0]

All players should have their race clarified. We all know gutter runners are skaven, but it's not explicit in the roster.

Are all elves the same race? What about chaos warriors and Nurgle warriors? Nurgle warriors and rotters?

[harvestmouse]

Do we really want to do that? I'm sure we'd all end up awfully disappointed.

[spubbbba]

So, just to clarify, Skaven and Underworld Skaven are the same race just as Goblins and Underworld Goblins are the same race.

The underworld ones just mutate because of short term exposure to warpstone, and they have not mutated into a separate race due to long term exposure.

But dwarves and chaos dwarves are not the same race.

As long as these are correct, I understand

I'm not sure that's true, it depends how closely the Bloodbowl world follows the Warhammer one.

I suspect that the goblins we see on their own team and with Orcs are common Goblins, whilst those on Underworld teams are Night Goblins. In WHFB there is a slight difference in stats betweens night and common Goblins and there are different magic items they can both take. So you could say they are different races.

Mind you if we were going to follow Warhammer fluff then greenskins should have animosity against all players on their own team.

[harvestmouse]

You could go anyway with the goblins.

The facts we could take into account:

*Underworld Creepers pre-date the invention of Night Goblins by about 6 years. The team picture and roster makes no suggestion of Night Goblins.

*Up to 3rd edition Warhammer, more races could be affected by Chaos and become Chaotic. Most notably Dwarfs, Goblins, Orcs and Dark Elves.

*At FUMBBL we went with the Night Goblin look, it seems a shame and a wasted opportunity not too.

*Underworld Goblins can be mutated. Therefore Chaotic most likely. I'm not sure (meaning I doubt) this was the original premise, however it's a good one. I really like the design of the Underworld roster.

So to clarify:

Were the original Creeper players meant to be separate races? Almost certainly not. Are they now? You could just as easily say yes or no. And that's the same with a lot of players on a lot of teams. You'd just be making judgement calls that are bound to upset some.