APES of WRATH - by 3DB, Zlurpcast and Impact!

[SunDevil]

Very, very good point. I'd forgotten the 4+ implication.

I left off both Juggernaut and frenzy since all other skills on the other players (bar WA) relate to hands or, in the case of Grab, things you do with your hands. Plus, since a Silverback is essentially a big Gorilla, that rules out Frenzy (ever).

Open question: how would you do the Silverback? Would a 5519 EH, WA, MB, TTM, Loner, Grab player at 140k do the job?

Just a thought. How about a non dodging stunty? So the Gibbon at 6237 EH, stunty, fend, right stuff A/GSP 50k, for example?

I like that Silverback better but I do wish there was room for Juggernaut in there. I understand though - but where is the Strong Arm?

A non-Dodge Stunty is intriguing as well. I keep wanting either 2 Chimp positionals or 2 Gorilla positionals because of the different sculpts but feel more strongly about the Chimps. I think there should be both a Chimp Runner AND Chimp Lino. Maybe consider the Linos Bonobos or something. I can deal with only 4 Gorillas because with the different arms, you can make them four uniquely different sculpts!

Man, I am thrilled with these apes! Need to take month off from work and paint all of mine...dare to dream...

[Heff]

Benobo's would need wrestle rather than fend.

[Shteve0]

I keep wanting either 2 Chimp positionals or 2 Gorilla positionals because of the different sculpts but feel more strongly about the Chimps. I think there should be both a Chimp Runner AND Chimp Lino. Maybe consider the Linos Bonobos or something. I can deal with only 4 Gorillas because with the different arms, you can make them four uniquely different sculpts

It's difficult. And honestly, I'm inclined to argue that less is definitely more, both in terms of starting skills and starting roster options.

Have a quick scan at the team rosters list. You'll note how few teams can take more than 8 positionals total (three, incidentally - humans, orcs, and dark elves) or more than three types of positional (orcs and dark elves again, plus norse and necro, though arguably also goblins), not including big guys. That's few enough for me to consider it a trend, and therefore a sound rule of thumb, that 0-8 positionals over 2-3 positional 'types' is what's consider good design.

I'd also argue that players that develop in too linear a fashion are not, generally, very entertaining to develop, and leaving that end-user design space open just feels right to me. It's what makes Slann "Blitzers" such an interesting prospect, or Nurgle Pestigors, or Underworld Skaven Linemen. I'd consider the two biggest factors in keeping a team interesting are a lack of starting 'safe' skills and interesting skill access charts. If you have a player that is always going to skill up the same way, where's the fun in picking the skills? A lot of the time the decision is made for you by the player design.

So yes, I think you should be able to develop both Chimp Runners and more general Chimp Linos (plus Gorilla Blockers and Blitzers). But I think that should be a decision left open to you in your team development choices, by what skills you give them and what stat boosts they get.

[SunDevil]

I see your point about the open-ended game design and not having too many positionals. I love the Grabbing, WA Gorillas and think a team with lots of WA fits them well, while being new (to me) and balanced.

I just keep wanting a 7-MV Chimp.

I'm pretty positive I'd play this roster and we are still working on a version to use at next year's Three Die Brawl. Shteve-O will get credit along with some other listeners who have submitted rosters. We might need to have a podcast contest next spring...

[Shteve0]

LOL! Shout out is all well and good, but where's my prize?

Seriously though, simply keen to see an interesting roster for these guys, and if I can contribute ideas that work towards that, then great.

Back to it, for whatever reason, I keep feeling like the 16 gibbon roster - complete with, yes, MA7 chimps - was both the most balanced and the most interesting we've come up with (at least, that I've seen - you may well have some real humdingers in your inbox).

0-16 Gibbon 6337 extra hands G/ASP 50k
0-2 Orangutan 5338 extra hands, strong arm, big hand GP/AS 70k
0-2 Chimpanzee 7337 extra hands, fend GA/SP 80k
0-4 Gorilla 5428 extra hands, grab, wild animal GS/AP 80k
0-1 Silverback 5519 loner, extra hands, grab, mighty blow, wild animal S/GAP 140k
Rerolls 60k

I realise the Gibbons there don't have stunty, and you don't get your Chimp linemen with this, but you're spot on - I'm struggling to find a balance without that MA7 chimp.

A few thoughts:
- Gibbons don't need stunty. There, I said it. And with full positionals elsewhere, you're likely to only have 2-4 gibbons anyway (though the physical figure mix kinda works against this).
- Now the chimp is back to 0-2, would swapping Wrestle in for Fend on him be a step too far? And would he then be undercosted?
- Is the Silverback reasonably priced at 140k? I reckon he could maybe stand to lose a few pounds*, say 10-20k from that price, but I'm having trouble weighing it up. For 60k over the Gorilla you're getting +ST and MB, but taking on Loner and -AG and losing your G-Access. Tricky. I'm tempted to suggest a drop to 120k.

* pun very much intended

[MattDakka]

I would remove Wild Animal from Gorillas, they struggle to move and mark with it.
You can live with it on the Silverback, but Wild Animal on 4 key players who are supposed to guard the weaker ones is a great handicap in my opinion.

[SunDevil]

I would remove Wild Animal from Gorillas, they struggle to move and mark with it.
You can live with it on the Silverback, but Wild Animal on 4 key players who are supposed to guard the weaker ones is a great handicap in my opinion.

It's a moderate handicap, but only on a 1 (when hitting) and can be RRed. Plus they keep their TZs. Not as bad as Bloodlust or Bonehead on an Ogre team because you will probably roll for those 6 times a turn, usually failing at least one.

Plus, this gives the team some character, a unique spin all it's own. Most WA in the game baby!

Thanks for the comments though! I want to hear from everyone to get this roster reasonable, playable and balanced!