Talk Fantasy Football

Me and my blood bowl associates are playing a league and we need this clarified.

It states under the turnover section on pg. 8 that a turnover happens when:
3) The ball is passed and not caught by a player from the moving team.
4) A player from the moving team attempts to pick up the ball and fails...

However, on pg. 14 under turnovers it says:
If the ball isn't caught by a player from the moving team, a turnover take's place...

Here's the question, if a player on the moving team knocks an opposing coach's player over and follows up, and the ball scatters to the moving player's square and he fails to catch it, does a turnover take place?

According to pg. 8, no. But my friend pointed out, according to page 13, yes.

No it's not a turnover.

failing a catch isn't a turnover, its a failed pass that is, so not catching a scattered ball isn't a turnover

however not catching a pass isn't a turnover as long as someone else from your team catches it before the ball finally comes to rest

Could you please be more specific explaining why, because my fellow players, except me, agree it is a turnover because of what pg. 13 says.
"If a ball isn't caught by a player from the moving team, a turnover takes place and the moving team's turn ends."

However, I believe this line is in the context of you passing the ball, not a knockback scatter which was missed. Please explain.

Ok then,

when you throw a pass and it isn't caught by someone else on the moving team, then it is a turnover. Note however that the first catch attempt can fail scatter to someone else, go out of bounds and still end up being caught then it isn't a turnover. It is where the ball initially comes to rest which determines if this is a turnover or not.

Now failing to catch a bouncing ball, isn't a turnover. There is no where in the Living Rulebook that says it is.

I just read over page 13 and i don't see what it is you are referring to that would make every catch a turnover. Page 13 is just about throwing the football and has nothing else to do with a bouncing ball with i think you are confusing with the scattering of an inaccurate pass.

The quote you are refering to (on pg 14 not 13) "If the ball isn't caught by a player from the moving team, a turnover take's place... " is taken out of context. This quote is meant to be read as a part of the Passing rules and not to be taken on it's own. So, a turnover only occurs if the ball isn't (eventually) caught after a pass attempt (which includes a handoff as this counts an an accurate pass) and not as a result of a failed catch by any other means.

Just to be on the save side:

You mean an unsuccessful attempt to pick up a bouncing ball does never cause a turnover itself.
The turnover is caused, because your origin pass failed (and the ball ends up on an empty square), right?
And because there is no pass attempt in Bloodbowlers example there can't be a turnover.
Did I got that right?

In addition to this: If a failed attempt to pick up a ball causes a turnover, the ball must have been ended up in its square last turn, so that it is no more bouncing. Only in this case a turnover would take place, right too?
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Lordred wrote:You mean an unsuccessful attempt to pick up a bouncing ball does never cause a turnover itself.

Be very careful of your terms.

Picking up the ball is when you voluntarily move the square with the loose ball in it and try to pick it up. Failing the pick up is always a turnover.

Any other attempt to get control of the ball is a catch, and is not a turnover in itself.

ianwilliams wrote:Any other attempt to get control of the ball is a catch, and is not a turnover in itself.

Someday, Ian ... all the masses will know the mantra.

A failed catch roll is never a turnover by itself.

Anyone have any good suggestions as to where we could stick that in the LRB. Maybe after the turnover section. My fear is that younger player or those for whom English is not a native tongue might have trouble understanding the "by itself" part. But if they did understand then the rules for ball handling become a heck of a lot easier.

Galak

We need 2 Types of "things players can do"

1. Actions (Block, Blitz, Throw, Foul, Handoff)
2. Tasks (Dodge, Catch)

Pass needs to be renamed to "Throw", and split in 2
-> Throw Ball ; -> Throw Teammate

This terminology would help the Rulebook.

For example:


Throwing the Football

A failed throw results in a turnover unless the ball is caught by any teammate. A successful throw action is called a pass. The nominated receiving player must perform a succesful catch in order to complete the pass. A completed pass earns the throwing player 1 starplayer point.

Note that failing a catch does not result in a turnover unless the ball had been thrown by a teammate.

Unfortunately Toby that wording still doesn't work because it still falls into the is a bouncing ball catch still part of a pass catch confusion.

The wording we have suggested on the Hot List that we came up with a while back takes care of all of this confusion pretty well without creating even more new terms for BB.

Galak

Anyone have any good suggestions as to where we could stick that in the LRB. Maybe after the turnover section. My fear is that younger player or those for whom English is not a native tongue might have trouble understanding the "by itself" part. But if they did understand then the rules for ball handling become a heck of a lot easier.

IMO a table with ALL possible turnovers would help. You might want to have the pagenumber behind the specific turnover so that people can look it up as well. Then your table would be like a quick reference and can be held short while peole on the other hand don't have to search long for finging the exact references.

Further, examples would help a lot. Why not make an example of an accurate pass caught by a player of your own team, then modify this example (can be done as a text as well) to what happens if the player doesn't catch it but a player of his own team next to him catches it, then what happens if the throw is inaccurate, the crowd throws it in etc...my experience is that beginners have much difficulties with the rules scattered all over the different pages. On the other hand, they usually like to have a look at examples after reading the respective rules for the first time and often say this helps to get an idea of all the termini etc..

Sputnik

P.S.: a good example of how it should IMO not work:

1. Actions (Block, Blitz, Throw, Foul, Handoff)
2. Tasks (Dodge, Catch)

Pass needs to be renamed to "Throw", and split in 2
-> Throw Ball ; -> Throw Teammate

This terminology would help the Rulebook.

For example:


Throwing the Football

If you list all actions and you have a new chapter for each (still a good idea to explain them separately), the turnovers would again only be found under any of these. Now, you may cause a turnover due to an inaccurate throw--->please refer to page XY renamed "Throw". You might also cause a turnover by not catching it---> please refer to tasks/catch a few pages further on.

I would like to have a reference to a proposed table as mmentioned above after each explicitly explained turnover in each chapter to get them all together.

I experienced a lot of people having trouble with the term "Action".

Action can be anything a player does; But its not... so yes we need a list of actions an chapters that cover all topics in one place and so on and so on

Sputnik wrote:IMO a table with ALL possible turnovers would help.

That's on the Hot List already ...

Galak

Galak, how about this:

Chapter 5: Throwing

Once per team turn, one player of the moving team is allowed to perform one throw action.

1. Throwing the Football

A throw results in a turnover unless the ball is caught by any teammate. A successful throw is called a pass. The nominated receiving player must perform a succesful catch in order to complete the pass. A completed pass earns the throwing player 1 starplayer point.

Note that failing a catch does not result in a turnover unless the ball had been thrown by a teammate.

2. Throwing a Teammate

...