Fanatic Fix for broken teams.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:08 am

Vote away:

If I get sensible ideas/post I might sent this to Fanatic to show the general feeling around here.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:10 am

Personally the models could be done b4hand, give them to people to consider, then come up with rules that reflect the mini. I voted for the playtest then publish by the way. 6 months isnt enough time for full playtest but it will iron out the most grevious errors.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:15 am

my vote is just stick with the current teams (starting 12 and lizzies and amazons) and just leave it at that. we don't need rotter teams, we don't need vampire teams, we don't need ogre teams. just go tell them to go bugger off and leave the game alone!

and they can take their extra minis and shove em!

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 1:49 am

I wanted to say "Have TBB design it" but I also wanted to be serious.

The biggest problem with the new rules is that they are trying to wrap them around minis and that will never ever work.

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:26 am

I voted for TBB designing them and I was serious:

The idea would be for Fanatic to do the following:

1.They design a rough scetch of the team
2.They "accidentally" leak the design
3.They watch as TBB assisted by BBRC members tear the design up and come up with a better one
4.They take the better one and publish that

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:28 am

Post by **Dave** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 7:21 am

I would prefer the 2nd one but voted for something else.

Just take some COMMON SENSE sometimes and then the order (mini's - rules or the other way around) won't really matter.

A resonable list, experimental so things can still be changed, will make it more fun to playtest, hence more data, hence more balanced or at least 'fluff related' teams.

(Don't really care for a perfect balance myself, as long as no more power houses are added to the list)

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 9:00 am

To one extent is doesn't really matter when they design the minis.

Just have enough poses that line XXXX 1 could be used as a different position to line XXXX 2.

The thing that does matter is demonstrating that they understand how to design teams... maybe Galak could automate his guidelines.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 2:02 pm

ianwilliams wrote:The thing that does matter is demonstrating that they understand how to design teams... maybe Galak could automate his guidelines.

I was told by Andy Hall and another BBRC member in seperate emails that the team building guidelines I built are nice but that they don't put much merit in them as they are only based on historical official teams.

Oh well ... I tried.

Galak

Dangerous Dave · Post by **Dangerous Dave** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:10 am

Well, like most contributors, I agree that there should be some some kind of testing outside of GW before models are made. However, Fanatic don't agree on this. I have raised the very same issue with Andy H at Fanatic and here was his reply:

The models come first as they are the product. The rules are but a tool to use the product in your games..........the rules development is shared with the gaming community we need the models so people can playtest the rules.

IE models come first. Sure I can sort of understand this since that's what GW make money on. However, I believe that they will sell more minis if the rules are sensible and balanced. Sure the minis should be good too, but if you don't want to use a team in your league because you feel they are unbalanced, then you won't buy the models (OK you may buy 1 Ogre model to use as a Big Guy on a team but I doubt many will buy a team of Ogres given the current experimental rules).

Dave

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:14 am

GalakStarscraper wrote: I was told by Andy Hall and another BBRC member in seperate emails that the team building guidelines I built are nice but that they don't put much merit in them as they are only based on historical official teams.

Oh well ... I tried.

Galak

And their's are so much better?!?!?!?!?!?

I think that's the stock answer for, "No, I want my name on it."

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 10:15 pm

wesleytj wrote:my vote is just stick with the current teams (starting 12 and lizzies and amazons) and just leave it at that. we don't need rotter teams, we don't need vampire teams, we don't need ogre teams. just go tell them to go bugger off and leave the game alone!

and they can take their extra minis and shove em!

I also feel that there is not really any need for extra teams in the game, or any way that many new teams could be made that are balanced but different from the existing teams.

There's plenty of opportunity for new figs though as most of the 3ed figs are dire and need replacing. We could do with some extra positional players too, I hate the way I have two orc throwers the same, 16 players should mean 16 figs.

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 10:19 pm

Dangerous Dave wrote:Well, like most contributors, I agree that there should be some some kind of testing outside of GW before models are made. However, Fanatic don't agree on this. I have raised the very same issue with Andy H at Fanatic and here was his reply:

The models come first as they are the product. The rules are but a tool to use the product in your games..........the rules development is shared with the gaming community we need the models so people can playtest the rules.

The models may be the product from GWs point of view but clearly from the balance of discussion here the rules are what the majority of players are in the game for.

Personally I would be more inclined to buy figs for a good well balanced team than I am for the broken Khemri or Fanatic Ogre team.

Saying that I am also avioding having a chaos team because the figures are not good in my opinion, if they updated the figures for this team and I liked them I would probably buy them.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 12:15 am

I emailed Andy Hall awhile ago about bringing back some 2ed minis (such as kickers), but he said it won't happen. He also indicated in his reply that all existing teams will be redone, starting with the elves (as we all know, there is a new set of minis due to be released in the near future). I don't know if the Rotters count as the redesign for the chaos team or not (probably), but looks like most teams will be redone. Judging from what I have seen from the previews for the new elves and ogres, it looks like they are going back to a more football look to the figs (compared to a fantasy look), which is good.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 12:20 am

Yes that is good. As long as they can leep the 12 fig box sets at $30-$35 like they should. This $40-$60 crap is juts way over the top! C'mon, any other fig producer makes individual figures for 2 to 3 dollars. That means they should be able to sell 12 figs for around $30 and still make loads of money.

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Fanatic Fix for broken teams.

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Fanatic Fix for broken teams.