Talk Fantasy Football

Are they really going to be dethroned? I think not.
Discuss.

lunchmoney wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:12 pm Are they really going to be dethroned? I think not.
Discuss.

For Leagues or Tournaments?

Exhibition play they still have lots of starting dodge

In either environment Leap, without TRR, is now 50% but dodging into a cage with Dodge skill is 55%. You need the TRR to make the risk worth Leaping!

All normal Elves have the standard 4+ pass meaning you can no longer string together half a dozen 2+ rolls to just win the game. One, or more, of those rolls is going to have a higher target number.

All these are just small percentage reductions but they are on key rolls the team makes. My view is they will be move down from the pedestal. Do you have an actual counter argument as to why they will not?

Lyracian wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:58 pm For Leagues or Tournaments?

Both, I guess. I've seen a bit of chatter saying they will no longer be as prolific in tourneys but it applies to leagues as well.

lunchmoney wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:17 pm Both, I guess. I've seen a bit of chatter saying they will no longer be as prolific in tourneys but it applies to leagues as well.

Tournaments I think the 4 starting Dodge is still strong but they are going to be a risky pick compared to Dark Elves. Perhaps that makes them better in one day rather than two day events? I will still play them but I do not think they will hold the top spot any longer. It is all Theory bowl at this point but that is my view.

Leagues I am taking Pro Elves. That extra point of Str and Nerves of Steel on the Catchers will really shine. You can put Leap (and wrestle) on a Catcher for the occasional cage dive or score. With Pass being harder you are more likely to want to hand off to a marked catcher and then dodge them into the end zone rather than dodge and then pass once they get to the end zone. This is where Nerves helps and the cost (in both SPP and TV) to give that to a Welf Catcher is prohibitive.

As Lyracian said, this is still theory bowl.

But I see 3 things annoying woodies in BB 2020 :

1- Thrower becomes the only wood elf with PA 2+. It means passes after sacks will generally be harder. In LRB 6/BB 2016, the ones picking-up and passing after a sack were generally catchers, who are faster and have Dodge skill.

2- Leap to sack is more risky for wardancers who are the key roster players. You can lose 120 000 on a failed leap (they are more than good but AR 7). Leaps were 3+ for them in LRB 6/BB 2016. They are now still 3+ if 1 or 2 tz (on square they leap from or into), they are 4+ if 3 tz (on square they leap from or into), 5+ if 4 tz, 6+ if 5 TZ [edited]


3- Foul is buffed in BB 2020 and some teams with foul inducements will destroy woodies easier than they can do now.

Then, they can also jump over prone or stunned players now and I don't realize how all new skills will be prons or cons for them. So I have to admit they will maybe suffer less than I can now imagine.

Unless I've misunderstood something, a 2TZ leap is a 3+ and a 3TZ Leap is 4+.

The Agility test is a 2+ base now, two tacklezones takes that to 4+, and then Leap brings that back down to 3+.

But between the Leap changes, Catchers losing Sprint, and the slight price nudges, I do feel that WE will get knocked down a little bit.

Yes, I've read it again and you're right. We have to take the highest number of TZ (between square leaped from and square leaped into) and apply -1 if has Leap skill (to a minimum of -1).

So 2+ if 0 TZ
3+ if 1 TZ or 2 TZ
4+ if 3 TZ
5+ if 4 TZ
6+ if 5TZ

You've overlooked the cost changes.

No matter the build, you're losing a positional and/or a reroll/apo/tree.

That's true, but all best tier 1 teams will have to face this problem in BB 2020.

Well, at least, they'll have to face it in leagues (for woodies, starting roster at 1 000 000 will be short).
In tourneys, it will depend on allowed budget. 1st NAF tourney announcements that I saw were at 1 150 000 and, at this budget, woodies would still be abble to have a "complete" roster despite cost changes.

I think that all elves are moved down.
I haven't looked at all the changes as a whole but the simple fact that passing is harder for most players makes elves loose a lot of their elf BS.

No longer will they be able to pop the ball with strip ball and dodge a pesky catcher in and out and punt the ball with ease.

That and the fact that fouling is buffed will make it harder for Wood Elves to dominate the scene as they used to do.

Afterthought:
Maybe having a punt action would be kind of nice to add to the possible actions but it is quite punishing if you are able to pull it off VS slower teams.

Also, I don't get why passing needed to be nerfed this hard. Typically it is something that all good coaches wanted to avoid anyway.
Now it seems like a desperation play to make.

Papa Sebco wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:11 pm That's true, but all best tier 1 teams will have to face this problem in BB 2020

Undead don't...

nazgob wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:41 am

Papa Sebco wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:11 pm That's true, but all best tier 1 teams will have to face this problem in BB 2020

Undead don't...

Ghouls were at 70.000 in BB 2016 and are at 75.000 in BB 2020.
Mummies were at 120.000 in BB 2016 and are at 125.000 in BB 2020.

I agree with you that, at TV 100 or at TV 110, players cost increase is worse for Woodies than for Undead but, what I wanted to say is that there was a players cost increase for all the 3 rosters which dominated BB 2016 NAF tourneys meta (lizardmen, undead, wood elves).

Dark elves were, in my opinion, the 4th one. They have no player cost increase but with Runner at PA 3+ and other players at PA 4+ or 5+, they are now clearly the elf team which is the less abble to pass.

So, to sum up, in my opinion, a new meta is born but, for instance, I can't say who will be the new top teams.