Drawing the line and probabilities

[Cervidal]

Something I've noticed in all leagues I've played in is that some teams get a questionable number of unusual rolls when it comes to skills for their team. As far as I figure it, eight out of every thirty-six rolls should nab you something unusual on a player, be it something requiring doubles or a statistic increase. That's just under one in every four rolls.

*the rant part*

When should someone start to question other coaches' teams? Personally, I seem to roll under the norm. Most coaches I play against roll slightly above the expected result. Some coaches I know consistantly roll a double or a stat increase one in every two rolls. The same guys who do the latter also seem to have incredible luck in all their dice rolls. Should I chalk this up to luck? Ask my opponent to use different dice? The latter tends to make people mad but with the luck some coaches have, their teams become no fun to play against.

*end rant part*

My point is, when does a Blood Bowl team become statistically improbable enough to call a coach into question? And if someone reaches that point, what do you do from there?

[Harleqin]

Statistically improbable? I'd say if every second roll is a double. It's not a problem we've ever had in my league as we do all our skill roling in front of other coaches to prevent anyone weak of mind to cheat. We then write down if it was a skill or a double so the coach can think about what to choose. Same with a stat increase if it's on a double. If it's a 5-6 or a 4-6 not giving him any choice then we adjust the roster immediately.

Anyone caught cheating with their roster would probably be expelled for at least two tournaments/seasons. Rough, yes, but cheating is unacceptable.

[Cervidal]

That's one of the problems I've faced. Rolls are, as far as I know, made in front of other coaches. It may not be a deliberate action being taken by the coach, but it sure is difficult to pry away the same dice s/he's been using all season long while developing the improbable teams.

[Darkson]

If I had a pair of dice that kept rolling doubles there's no way you'd be taking them away from me - them's the breaks.

Having said that, most dice I own seem to only roll doubles for AV rolls - normall double 1's. For skills I normally roll a 1 & 2

[Thadrin]

We always roll up what skills we get at the end of the game with the other coach watching. Quite often I'll choose a skill and then change my mind before the next game, but thats nothing that I should be ashamed about.

Anyone who actively cheats isn't worth playing against.

My longbeards have picked up four skills...three of them rolled doubles (two Stand Firm, One dauntless). One of my Runners picked up AG increases on his first two rolls (and has since done next to nothing to gain SPPs). My slayers have six skills between them - one a double. Just the way it went. I always use the same dice I use in the game so it would be fairly obvious if doubles kept coming up in the game, way before the skill roll stage.

[Harleqin]

I think my dice were made at the same time as yours Darkson. They always roll double ones when I have to break AV. And a 1-3 combo is most common when rolling skills.

I want to inverse the skill table:
2: +1 ST
3: +1 AG
4: +1 MA
5-12: Skill

[The UniGoblin]

hmmmmm...I wonder where you get those magical dice that roll only doubles and 10+....


Probably the same place where I was tricked into buying these dice that only roll 1's.

[Zombie]

If it's a 5-6 or a 4-6 not giving him any choice then we adjust the roster immediately.

They changed the rule. You now have the choice to take a normal skill when you roll one of those.

[Dave]

My Welf team HAD a fair amount of players showing Guard and even ST4.

Obviously they didn't last long.

Being lino's they had big trouble getting block as well. They were (allmost) too importand there I blocked to be used to collect balls and get SPP's

[DoubleSkulls]

My point is, when does a Blood Bowl team become statistically improbable enough to call a coach into question? And if someone reaches that point, what do you do from there?

Well I've been extremely lucky on both my current ECBBL teams. I have a High Elf team with 2 +ST line elves and 3 guards after 16 games. I also have an Orc team with 4 +AG, 2 +ST and 4+ MA on various players after 27 games. All the skill rolls have been made in front of witnesses.

So if your skill rolls are being witnessed, what is the problem? Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes not. Sometimes you get lucky over a long run.

If your leagues aren't witnessing skill and ageing rolls I'd recommend that you do.

[Aino]

I'm in favor of everyone using the SAME dice and rolling in presence of your opponent...
I had a friend who used his own dice and wouldn't let anyone use them...which i find is a way of cheating...especially when they come up with quite some 10+ !!!
Aino

[gallowin]

In all fairness, both coaches should use the same set of dice for all their rolls. We've gone so far as to supply dice for everyone to use.

There have also been discussions about how people roll their dice. One coach just turns his hand over and lets the dice fall out. Some people felt that was cheating as his dice rolls were usually pretty good. I've had a few coaches request the dice be rattled in the hand before being thrown.

[Grumbledook]

There are methods to throwing dice to get certain numbers, mostly techniques used when playing craps.

[Ghost of Pariah]

OH puh-leeez! How they roll? Once the dice leave his hand how can he control how they bounce? Also he would have to pick them up, both mind you, on the opposite side of what he wanted to roll!

Sounds like sour grapes to me...although I don't let anyone use my dice.

[GalakStarscraper]

The problem is that sometime Lady Lucks steps in. The only control is to make sure all the rolls are witnessed.

In the MBBL right now, we have one of the scariest Elf teams I've ever seen ... or at least one of the scariest players:

http://www.midgardbb.com/MBBL/Season2/S ... Blades.htm

His 2 Lion Warriors have rolled 3 +1 ST rolls for their 5 combined skill rolls. The rolls were completely legit. It just happens sometimes.

Galak