Talk Fantasy Football

This year something that hadn't even occurred to me became apparent. On one or two occasions, I heard/saw mutterings of a slight demise in the tournament scene (in the UK at least) and even tournaments being cancelled due to not enough people showing interest. Hopefully across the globe this isn't the case. But it got me thinking what could be done to keep the game fresh going forward if there is a slight decline creeping in.

Now I'm by no means an authority in the game. But I figured I could get the ball rolling and put some ideas out there and see what the community thought.

My first thought was tournaments... and the first thing I was going to throw out there is if you're going to a tournament... pay up. Now I'm as guilty as the next guy of declaring my interest months in advance then waiting until the week before to actually buy my ticket. Early bird discounts are starting to appear I've noticed. I'm going to personally make more effort to pay for my ticket as soon as I can if I want to go to a tournament. It gives the TO greater confidence that people are actually going to show an allows them to get those nice shiney trophies in time without hurting their pockets. I can't comment on other people's financials but I know £20 isn't going to hurt less next month than this month... so I'm going to try and put my money down early from now on.

Second is for tournament organisers. LET US KNOW if it's looking sketchy money wise. If you're worried not enough people are paying up, that's what the forum is for. Before cancelling the whole thing poking a few people with a stick might prompt them to get their asses into gear. And again, I can't comment on other people's financials, but keep the entry fees fair please. I don't want to name any names out of respect but I have seen in the past entry fees that for a very humble venue and a very humble rulespack was a little over the odds in terms of ticket price.

Now we all now Blood Bowl is the sport of kings and anyone would be crazy not to want to play it right? But I hear there's some poor deluded saps out there that aren't on board yet. I know right??? Going into next year I'm going to try and rub two brain cells together and think who I know that might be interested, and try and hook them. There are a lot of good ideas on TFF about getting new players involved, I think I'm going to give it a shot.

On the same vibe, I'm going to try and talk to a few new faces when I see them at tournaments. It's easy to stay in your usual circles, especially when we're from the same leagues etc. I've decided I'm just gonna make a little more effort to check in with people I might not have previously.

And finally... TFF. This place is a really important tool to our hobby and I for one haven't been dropping by enough as of late. I'm going to be logging on more often and contributing my inane ramblings to more discussions more often.

So there are my thought type things for Blood Bowl going forward. Do share your own and let's make 2015 an exciting and engaging year for our beloved game.

Re tourney tickets;
As a TO having people buy tickets early is great. I know how many ticket sales I need to break even on costs and I do have mild panic attacks right up the sale of the break even ticket. Whilst I wouldn't cancel, if I didn't break even I would have to seriously consider whether to run it again next year. And I do start badgering those on the "interested" list some time before the event. As for "early bird bonuses/discounts" there was another whole threadabout that and I'll leave that discussion there.
As a tourney goer I do try to pay up as soon as I can confirm I am able to go, but sometimes other things need paying for first and sometimes £20 is needed elsewhere.


Re tourney attending;
As a TO I try to minlge with everyone, and if I sometimes fail to talk to someone over the weekend (other than results) then I appologise.
As a tourney goer I am probably guilty of only socialising with people I know and, on reflection, that's bad. Afterall I got to know everyone by talking to them and I should try to increase my circle of friends. However there are times when my brain says otherwise and I just want to sit and maybe talk to only one person.

I don't think it is a case of attendance numbers declining, I think it is more a case of there being so many (too many?) tournaments going on and due to the sheer number coaches are less inclined to travel to further tournaments that they may have previously.

Also for whatever reason more and more people are unwilling/able to commit to attending tournaments, with the number of pay on the day 'promises' going up. The problem with this means that organisers are putting themselves in a position where they must sometimes pay large sums in advance with no solid idea, other than promises, that this will be covered.

I'd agree with that. I've had an idea to look at the UK tourney scene and do some stats about how far people are traveling.

Just not sure the naf can export the raw data.

Looking back in my six years on the scene the number of tourneys has increased, while the membership of highly active players has not increased that much. So we have a situation where supply is higher than demand.

It's another debate if that's a good or bad thing. But looking at local tourneys over the last six years some has maintained numbers, while others have seen a decline in attendance.

But the common factor is the lack of traveling players, we are lucky in the local scene has grown so some tourneys have maintained numbers that way.

I have to agree with Rob that there might be too many tournies now. Its great having smaller events but when half of them are ending up cancelled its a bit pointless.

The paying up early(ish) is a biggy. I cancelled Pornbowl after only having about 3 people pay with only 1 month to go. What made it worse was that 1/2 the people who were on the interested list had paid for events that were taking place 1-2 months after Pornbowl.

I do think there needs to be a cut off point, maybe just have it so new events are not NAF sanctioned until the following year and providing they get 'x' number of attendants?

I know i wont be running a tournie any time soon after what happened with Pornbowl.

You know, I honestly didn't consider that it would be a case of supply outreaching demand. I would go so far as to say that's a good thing, more people so enthusiastic about the game they're willing to give it a shot. And Shane I wouldn't give up altogether, although I completely understand you'd be disappointed seeing people paying for tournaments that come after yours.

The thread about early bird bonuses is a really interesting read, I won't discuss them here since there's a thread made out for them but I'd check it out if you haven't already.

I'm playing a game on Wednesday night with a mate interested in getting into the game, so hopefully I'll be able to bring along some fresh blood to a tournament or two next year

nonumber wrote:Second is for tournament organisers. LET US KNOW if it's looking sketchy money wise. If you're worried not enough people are paying up, that's what the forum is for. Before cancelling the whole thing poking a few people with a stick might prompt them to get their asses into gear. And again, I can't comment on other people's financials, but keep the entry fees fair please. I don't want to name any names out of respect but I have seen in the past entry fees that for a very humble venue and a very humble rulespack was a little over the odds in terms of ticket price.

What sort of ticket price do you think is fair? Just how expensive have some tournaments been?

To give a comparison, I charge $45 AUD for my tournament (Southern Shrike Bowl, a 6 game, 2 day tournament). That's equivalent to approximately £25 or €30.

That may seem like a lot, but this year the player gifts included a custom Dark Elf miniature (sculpted by Pedro Ramos), a matching star player card, metal Chaos Pact and Dark Elf racial Blood Bowl balls, pair of customised Chaos Pact d6’s, SSB pin badge and SSB fridge magnet.

Plus every player got a pick from the prize table.

That price is probably in line with what other tournaments in Australia charge.

Got a link to the early bird thread?

Olaf the Stout wrote: Got a link to the early bird thread?

lunchmoney wrote:As for "early bird bonuses/discounts" there was another whole threadabout that and I'll leave that discussion there.

shaniepoo wrote:I do think there needs to be a cut off point, maybe just have it so new events are not NAF sanctioned until the following year and providing they get 'x' number of attendants?

I think this could be really bad for the community, effectively ostracising new TOs (or even coaches who aspire to be TOs) from the scene. The NAF should be about inclusivity and getting as many people as possible linked up with the wider community. First-time tournaments are the best time to do this, as they tap into a new seam of locals who may not have been aware of the tournament scene.

This 'too many tournaments' problem has been a long time coming, I remember discussing it even four years ago. As a happy traveller I assumed there would be some kind of 'social Darwinism' and that the biggest and best tournaments would thrive at the expense of smaller ones. In fact something quite different has happened, in that the scene has localised. Instead of choosing the six biggest tournaments to go to, people are choosing the six closest tournaments (and quite reasonably so). The troubles Shanie had with PornBowl are a real bummer, but cannot be avoided I guess as the consequence of 'too many' tournaments is that some events will fail. We have a crowded market, but you only have to look at the number of people signed up for the fledgling ExeBowl to see that there is still room to expand.

After looking at the naf site, I can't do any sort of data mining from the front end. So that's down to someone with more power and an interesting these sorts of stats.

Just looking at geordiebowl, because I know most of the folks that were there. I'll look at Monkeybowl, Batc, and some Scottish events later.

It's not a great sample but will give an idea of the northern situation

Geordiebowl had 22 coaches
9 local
8 Scottish
4 Manchester/Preston/chorley

So the max travel time would of been about 2 to 2 and half hours.

I do predict that if we looked at a larger sample this would be the general pattern.

I agree with Joe that the scene is becoming local, which there's nothing wrong with.

I like to travel as much as u can to meet new coaches and see different parts of the world, but it's balanced with the view I could do two local events for the cost of going to one event down south.

I don't think there are any answers to it, it's just the current situation.

Olaf the Stout wrote: What sort of ticket price do you think is fair? Just how expensive have some tournaments been?

To give a comparison, I charge $45 AUD for my tournament (Southern Shrike Bowl, a 6 game, 2 day tournament). That's equivalent to approximately £25 or €30.

That may seem like a lot, but this year the player gifts included a custom Dark Elf miniature (sculpted by Pedro Ramos), a matching star player card, metal Chaos Pact and Dark Elf racial Blood Bowl balls, pair of customised Chaos Pact d6’s, SSB pin badge and SSB fridge magnet.

Plus every player got a pick from the prize table.

That price is probably in line with what other tournaments in Australia charge.

I don't want to be too specific in order to avoid disrespecting anyone, but lets just say I've seen tourneys that have offered much less than you described for the same price. Id be happy to pay £25 for a 6 game tournament with freebies, spot prizes and such.

Lets throw this out there as a question then... who's responsible for growing blood bowl?

GW? Not likely. Fate? Possibly. Or maybe us.

Hypothetical, I run a tourney in Blackpool. Do I kick off when players aren't coming up from London or cross my fingers there's enough interest round my way. If tourneys are becoming local, who stirs up the localised interest?

We're basically a self managed cult following. If I want my annual tournament, wherever it may be, to succeed, do I spend the rest of the year drumming up interest, running a league, networking with other nearby leagues, tournaments and gaming clubs?

Thinking out loud

nonumber wrote:We're basically a self managed cult following. If I want my annual tournament, wherever it may be, to succeed, do I spend the rest of the year drumming up interest, running a league, networking with other nearby leagues, tournaments and gaming clubs?

That pretty much what I do.
Every tourney I go to I take flyers and promote my event (actually sometimes I forget the flyers, but I do talk about it). I log on to other local club's forum and promote my event. I try to get my own local league players to join in as well.
A tourney can only get attendence if people know about it.

As a new TO (of ExeBowl) I started the tournament because I wanted to play more Blood Bowl. We have a gaming club league that runs for a few months a year and then stops. The tournament was a way of helping to keep interest throughout the year and to try and find new local players for our league. As a result 4 of our 10 league players have or will play in their first tournaments this year.

I have taken it upon myself to promote the tournament to the best of my ability from the very beginning and have been honest and upfront about needing payment and setting expectations. As part of me wanting to learn about events, I have attended my first two (Gert and Exiles). I see this as part of promoting my tournament and supporting the local community. Making connections with other TOs, players, and leagues is part of the job. It is not enough to schedule an event and expect people to attend, it takes work.

I did do research before starting the tournament and I felt that geographically there were enough players to get me to 'break even' within 2hrs drive. I also took great confidence from the South West Tournament Championship. I feel that this regional championship helps support and nurture the local model; tournaments and players support each other. Having said that roughly half of the paid up players for ExeBowl have played fewer than 3 tournaments. So many that I am doing a 'Rookie Wonder' award for the top played new coach.

If players want tournaments and leagues to continue then they need to pay up and play. If the people that choose to run BB events aren't supported then the game will gradually disappear. Within the player base there should be enough people - like me - who then want to step up and run a league or a tournament. All I'll say to them is just do it! Try it out.