NEW new idea: (Re: Star Players)

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wesleytj
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NEW new idea: (Re: Star Players)

Post by wesleytj »

Wait! Don't flame me for advocating star players without at least reading it first!

I came up with an idea :?: about how to handle star players. Most people don't like the way they work. Jervis himself said that they were kinda just plastered on at the end as a way to get big guys in and sell models.

Well now we have the big guys in as rookies, so that part is fixed. But now we have all these models and stuff and nothing to do with them. I know you can freeboot them but I also know just as well as you do that no one ever does with the possible exception of goblin stars (the weapon dudes and such). But at the same time it's no fun to have stars running the game, and I (mostly) think stars should be developed not bought just like everyone else. It's also sucky that some teams have all kinds of star player options (like humans and chaos) while others have like 1 sucky star who isn't even as good as a rookie position player (like dark elves...I for one would rather have a dark elf blitzer with 0 spp than the assassin)

Anyway, here's my idea. Every team has 1 star player. 1. For most it will be an already existing star player. For example:
Chaos-Lord Borak
Humans-Griff Oberwald
High Elves-Prince Moranian
Wood Elves-Jordell Freshbreeze
Chaos Dwarves-Hthark (as bull centaurs are part of their team, not allies)
Orcs-Varag Ghoul-Chewer
Dwarves-Grim Ironjaw
Undead-Count Luthor

You get the idea.

However I'd advocate creating a few new ones to so that they're more or less all balanced. I'd suggest maybe a Griff-esque blitzer for Dark Elves (Jeremiah Kool?). Maybe a star wight for the Undead, depending on what happens with this whole Khemri team thing I keep hearing about (aka if they make seperate vampire/khemri teams or something)

I'd also suggest a similar creation for Lizards (A Saurus star), as well as one for amazons and norse(Blitzers), unless they have one already; I'll admit I haven't been keeping up with them. With Skaven, I'd say either use Hakflem or the Rat Ogre star Headsplitter, although I don't like that idea because I don't like the idea of the Big Guy stars coming back to non big-guy teams (if/when they make their comeback as Chet has promised, in which case they have their stars already) I guess if there would be an exception to that it would be the stunty teams, I'd be ok with the flings having the tree star and the gobs the troll star, it's not like anyone REALLY cares.

Of course, max 1 star per team, which is easy to do since there's only 1 guy available for each team this way anyway, except I guess goblins who would still have their weapon stars, but as I said they'd gave to choose 1. So if they take the troll star then they get no ball and chain or chainsaw (did anybody ever really take that pogo stick guy, or did they just buy the model because it was funny?)

In this system, you could have star players as part of your actual roster. The only drawbacks would be that they'd count as the appropriate position, and the drawback star players always have, namely that they steal SPP's away from other players.

So let me know what you think. I think this is a decent compromise to get them back without screwing up game balance too.

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Post by Longshot »

sorry, but i am still not interested in Stars.

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Lightning' bugs for the win

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Post by Dangerous Dave »

Sorry, any system that advocates use of any Stars will not find my support.... and I did read it!

IMO Bloodbowl is a much better game without them.


Dave

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Toby

Post by Toby »

Jordell Freshbreeze Wood Elf Superstar (76 SPP) Catcher 150.000
9/2/5/7 Block, Catch, Dodge, Leap, Diving Catch, Side Step (General, Agility)

Eldric Sidewinder Wood Elf Veteran (16 SPP) Thrower 110.000
7/3/4/7 Pass, Sure Hands, Accurate (General, Agility, Passing)

Griff Oberwald Human Superstar (76 SPP) Catcher 130.000
8/2/4/7 Block, Catch, Dodge, Leap, Sprint, Sure Feet (General, Agility)

Mighty Zug Human Veteran (16 SPP) Blitzer 120.000
7/4/3/8 Block, Mighty Blow (General, Strength)

Deeproot Strongbranch Treeman Veteran (16 SPP) Big Guy Blocker 140.000
2/7/1/10 Mighty Blow, Stand Firm, Block

Morg ’n Thorg Ogre Veteran (16 SPP) Big Guy Blocker 150.000
5/6/2/9 Mighty Blow, Block

Star Players already have collected the required amount of Star Player Points for their Player Title, and are not peaked.
Star Players use Player Positions and only one Star Player can be hired for each Player Position.

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Post by wesleytj »

You're missing the main point Toby. The main point is that you have to bring about team balance, and to do that each team only has to be allowed to have 1 star palyer. And none of the non big gu teams (except stunties) can have big guy stars.

The non-peaked idea is ok, but there are a few places where it doesn't currently work. for example since there is no rookie vampire currently in the rules, how do you handle count luthor?

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Toby

Post by Toby »

Luthor is a Wight with the secret weapon/special Hypnotic Gaze.

He needs his strength reduced i think.

I dont think you need the limit of only one Star per Team.
If stars are expensive the will come late to the team. The limit of one Star per position is cool.
The total limit of stars is easily determined by the stars you create. Create only one for Undead, and they have only one. Create 2 they have 2. Goblins could have 11 Stars if they still suck :D !

The idea is create "possible" stars that are quite good... but players that started as rookies could be even better with the same amount of SPP. Look at the Wood Elf star Thrower... he will have to play some time to get one chance to roll strong arm. A rookie will have 3 chances.

You pay for a Star in many ways:
1. One Player Position Slot
2. Gold
3. 1-7 Star Player Rolls
4. Team Rating !!!

Look at Griff "the Catcher" Oberwald.
-You can only skill 3 other catchers how you like them to be
-Buing him costs you 130.000
-He adds 76 SPP to your team.
-Your team rating goes up 28 points by hiring the guy. He rolled only one double, but didn't age...
He has 2 Star Player Rolls left if he lives to see the day...

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Post by Trambi »

Toby wrote: (...)
Griff Oberwald Human Superstar (76 SPP) Catcher 130.000
8/2/4/7 Block, Catch, Dodge, Leap, Sprint, Sure Feet (General, Agility)
(...)
Please don't call your sperstar catcher Griff Oberwald :x
Toby wrote: (...)
Morg ’n Thorg Ogre Veteran (16 SPP) Big Guy Blocker 150.000
5/6/2/9 Mighty Blow, Block
(...)
Morg 'n Thorg can't be just a Veteran Ogre :x
Toby wrote: (...)
Star Players already have collected the required amount of Star Player Points for their Player Title, and are not peaked.
Star Players use Payer Positions and only one Star Player can be hired for each Player Position.
I don't like star players but why not if they are balanced as these one.

Reason: ''
Ogres are the only true Blood Bowl players !
Ogrewomen are the only true BB Cheerleaders !
Toby

Post by Toby »

Trambi of course the names must change !!!

Its just to give a indication what 3rd edition star was taken as a starting point...

An 6339 Ogre would be to much and cost 190.00 if you calculate like this:
double =20K, normal SPR = 10K.

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Post by Trambi »

With a new names, it seems ok :)

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Ogres are the only true Blood Bowl players !
Ogrewomen are the only true BB Cheerleaders !
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Post by Zombie »

Sorry, but i read it all, and i hate it all. Star players have no business in the game except for the fluff in the book. I don't care how balanced they are, they're just not fun at all.

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Post by Trambi »

I still don't like star players but these ones seems not overpowered and could be fun to play.

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Ogres are the only true Blood Bowl players !
Ogrewomen are the only true BB Cheerleaders !
Toby

Post by Toby »

Zombie, then dont use them !!!

Look, by the time you can afford Stars, you have already developed your own. Stars should be designed to be a option in team mangement, not the definite anwer to all tactics.

I give you an example.
I play a tournament, and build my human catchers.
1 of the 3 i bought (all Stars with 4 SPR by now) rolled +1 AG, and i gave him the Leap Skill. Now the guy dies in the semis finals. I lose the final. With him i would possibly have won. If i had the option to replace him with a standard "level 2" character then that element of bad bad luck would be addressed. You are right your OWN stars should be WAY cooler but i dont see the problem to achieve that !

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Post by Colin »

Hi, I'm new to TBB but I've been playing BB since 2nd ed. I like Toby's idea for using star players, allowing them to collect spp's. It's something along the same line as the idea I was planning on using. I can understand why people don't like stars but since I have the minis I want some way of using them (and I don't like the star players only freebooted rule). I think you should be able to buy weteran and experienced players as well when starting out. I ran a league that allowed you to purchase skills/mutations for starting players so that there would be some experience on the team (not just a team full of rookies and maybe one star). I can't remember if it was 10K or 20K per skill/mutation, but allowed max of three to be bought, no more than 2 skills or one mutation to one player. It seemed to work well. Anyway, I am going to try the non-peaked star player idea in the next league I run.

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GO STAMPEDERS!
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Post by Trambi »

Torg : To put it in a nutshell I don't like stars cos they are overpowered and the easiest way to play beardy.

Reason: ''
Ogres are the only true Blood Bowl players !
Ogrewomen are the only true BB Cheerleaders !
Toby

Post by Toby »

Trambi we allowed to dropp racial characteristics on a double;

Imagine... should i buy that ST6+Block Ogre with Bone Head or should i better buy an Rookie Ogre and hope for a double so i could get rid of that Bone Head thing...

I always loved that "what should i do with my skill choices" best !

Right now most coaches decided NOT to buy Star Players. They want to collect SPP first, and then retire players who have not collected many points... but as team rating increases there is less money... i dont know if there will be many stars. We already have a ST4 Daunless Dragonwarrior (Moranion) and the Wood Elf Veteran Thrower. The coach refuses to play without sure hands because he rolls 1 ALWAYs. :D

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