BB2 Full listof changes to crp

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dode74
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Re: BB2 Full listof changes to crp

Post by dode74 »

With that done can we get back to Jimmy's very valid points?
Jimmy Fantastic wrote:
plasmoid wrote:There is only 1 treasury. No "Bank".
You can always move treasury/Cash into Petty Cash - but when you do, your team value increases (reducing inducements by the same ammount, if you were getting any).
The "Bank" cap was just that any Cash above the cap was automatically moved to Petty Cash - meaning that it Counts towards TV.

Woah Woah Woah. Are you saying that you have broken the bank rule and Cyanide have just done what you wanted?
Jimmy Fantastic wrote:Also
plasmoid wrote:Old Bank (before Petty Cash rule) allowed you to use any Cash you had already counted towards TV for inducements. So, if you had a 120TV team and 50K available, you'd be at 125TV already.

The latest version combines the existing Petty Cash rule with Bank:
You can tap into treasury for inducements, but that adds to TV (reducing the ammount of 'free/fake' Cash you'd be getting).
Bank rule just Means that any Cash in your treasury above 150K has to be added to Petty Cash (but not neccessarily spent) adding to TV.

In essence both versions do the same thing.
Is either of those how it Works in BB2?
Cheers
Martin
Ofc there is no "latest" bank rule unless your bank rule is what Cyanide are using.

Galak's rule expressly forbids moving money from the bank in the pre game.

Do you seriously fail to understand that these are very different rules?

Have any of the ex-BBRC signed off on this rule?

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Re: BB2 Full listof changes to crp

Post by plasmoid »

Hi Jimmy,
if you're going to be rude right off the bat, you could have given me the courtesy of trying to understand what I said.
But I'll happily explain, in the hope that you'll actually read it.
Woah Woah Woah. Are you saying that you have broken the bank rule and Cyanide have just done what you wanted?
I don't know Jimmy, that's why I asked how it worked in Cyanide. Not that I got a detailed reply.
But from what I can gather, they implemented it wrong, if they used it as a starting point - as for example there is no "topping off".
Ofc there is no "latest" bank rule unless your bank rule is what Cyanide are using.
Galak's rule expressly forbids moving money from the bank in the pre game.
Do you seriously fail to understand that these are very different rules?
Galak's rule (or rather my original rule, if you want a stroll Down memory lane) forbids moving Money in the pre-game, because that was completely unheard of. Never done before, and as you calculated your TV for next game during your post game sequence, it was thought to be way too messy.

So, the Bank rule does this:
1. You can set aside Cash. Anything up to 150K does not Count towards TV.
2. Anything above 150K will add to your team value and be available.
3. Anything you chose to not Bank will also Count towards team value and be available - though people never did, as this was during your postgame, so you didn't know your next opponents TV.
4. Anything Thus available would increase TV, but would also be available for inducements at no further cost. (Since you already payed).
5. You can not top-off on your inducement Cash.
6. Anything available not spent would naturally still be yours after the game, just inflating your TV for no gain.

Then JJ nixed it. And created the Petty Cash rule. Which allows the transfer of Cash in the pre-game, and the messy recalculation of Team Value during the inducement phase.
....And that's what we've all been playing for 5 years now. And gotten used to.

Eventually, the Bank rule got more and more removed from what BB players were used to, meaning more misunderstandings.
So I decided to rewrite the Bank rule to fit into the Petty Cash framework.

Now - if Cyanide has done anything that is unlike the mechanics of the Petty Cash rule that we already have, then they have messed it up. (If they're using mine at all...)

But let's look at my rewrite:
1. Cash are default Banked. Anything up to 150K does not Count towards TV.
2. Anything above 150K be automatically turned into Petty Cash and will add to your team value and be available.
3. As with the Petty Cash rules any further Cash you have can be made available and will then also Count towards team value.
4. Anything Thus available would increase TV, but would also be available for inducements at no further cost. (Since you already payed).
5. You can not top-off on your inducement Cash, as per the Petty Cash rules anything you try to top off with will increase your TV, thereby lowering the imaginary Cash you'd be getting.
6. Anything available not spent would naturally still be yours after the game, just inflating your TV for no gain.

So - I hope you now see the connection.
I was making a rewrite that would be easily understandable to anyone was not brought up in the CRP-era.
And as far as I recall, I didn't ask permission for the rewrite, since it does the same thing - except it adds the flexibility that comes with the Petty Cash rules that have been in the game for 5 years, and as you say have been working just fine.

Cheers
Martin

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Re: BB2 Full listof changes to crp

Post by plasmoid »

In short - what you're describing Cyanide has done doesn't sound like my rewrite.
But if they chose to implement it (and mucked it up), then maybe they tried to go with the smaller rule change (i.e. Keep Petty Cash) than the larger one ("Galak's") - for fear of the usual TT community outcry(?)
Cheers
Martin

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Re: BB2 Full listof changes to crp

Post by dode74 »

So this "new" bank rule of yours is just that: yours? Does it have any endorsement and were you explicit that you had changed it with those you sought endorsement from?

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Re: BB2 Full listof changes to crp

Post by Jimmy Fantastic »

Ok I don't want to distract from Dode's post but "topping off" inducement cash with treasury is totally possible, it's just that you would have gotten more inducement cash if you didn't have the treasury.

I also have to say that it's funny that Galak has been campaigning for the Bank rule because he hates Petty Cash. Jervis created Petty Cash cos he hated the Bank rule. Your rule combines the worst parts of each, well done.

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Re: BB2 Full listof changes to crp

Post by sann0638 »

OK, if possible to summarise, I've done a post of the differences from CRP: http://www.thenaf.net/blood-bowl/online/bb2/

But Jimmy says the Bank is not right. I don't understand it after reading these 7 pages. Can someone do a step by step pre-game guide?

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Re: BB2 Full listof changes to crp

Post by garion »

sann0638 wrote:OK, if possible to summarise, I've done a post of the differences from CRP: http://www.thenaf.net/blood-bowl/online/bb2/

But Jimmy says the Bank is not right. I don't understand it after reading these 7 pages. Can someone do a step by step pre-game guide?
Thanks Sann, I have updated the OP, as you requested.

On top of Sanns question, can we get clarification on how stadiums and the market place work. in reference to the stadiums what would happen if someone had an Elf turf and the opposition has Astroturf

Also if any clarification on whether all these are rules changes or whether they are bugs for example, is stab not working on multiblock a bug or a rule change, is skill optionality a bug or rules change and so on - http://www.thenaf.net/blood-bowl/online/bb2/

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Re: BB2 Full listof changes to crp

Post by sann0638 »

garion wrote:clarification on how stadiums and the market place work. in reference to the stadiums what would happen if someone had an Elf turf and the opposition has Astroturf

Also if any clarification on whether all these are rules changes or whether they are bugs for example, is stab not working on multiblock a bug or a rule change, is skill optionality a bug or rules change and so on - http://www.thenaf.net/blood-bowl/online/bb2/
From the point of view of the post, for stadiums we can just say "these are not CRP", and as regarding bugs, this page is hopefully a step towards getting some clarification about that sort of thing. Some people are still reporting the 90k orc blitzer as a bug...

But yes, it would be nice to know.

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Re: BB2 Full listof changes to crp

Post by garion »

Sure, I'd just love to know how stadiums work in their entirety, whether they add to TV is another bid question that needs answering.

I actually love the stadium upgrade thing in theory, though it seems like they have made some big blunders with it, none more so than free wizards for both teams :o :o :o :o :o :o

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Re: BB2 Full listof changes to crp

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They don't add to TV, according to reports I've read.

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Re: BB2 Full listof changes to crp

Post by garion »

do you know how much they cost as well?
cheers

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Re: BB2 Full listof changes to crp

Post by dode74 »

You need a level 2 stadium (100k) and then the upgrade, which is another 100k.

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Re: BB2 Full listof changes to crp

Post by plasmoid »

Hi Jimmy,
I also have to say that it's funny that Galak has been campaigning for the Bank rule because he hates Petty Cash. Jervis created Petty Cash cos he hated the Bank rule. Your rule combines the worst parts of each, well done.
Maybe you could reserve judgement until you properly understand the rule?
Anyway - it doesn't take parts of Petty Cash, it takes all of Petty Cash and add in the Bank Cap.
Ok I don't want to distract from Dode's post but "topping off" inducement cash with treasury is totally possible, it's just that you would have gotten more inducement cash if you didn't have the treasury.
Genuine question - is FUMBBL? not using the Petty Cash rule from CRP?

I'll give you a quick example:
Underdog with TV 110 and 100K in the treasury. Overdog has TV 119K. Underdog really wants to induce an apothecary (100K).

Underdog turns 0K into Petty Cash. Underdog TV 110. TV difference gives 90K for inducements for a total of 90K available. No apothecary.
Underdog turns 10K into Petty Cash. Underdog TV 111. TV difference gives 80K for inducements for a total of 90K available. No apothecary.
Underdog turns 20K into Petty Cash. Underdog TV 112. TV difference gives 70K for inducements for a total of 90K available. No apothecary.
Underdog turns 30K into Petty Cash. Underdog TV 113. TV difference gives 60K for inducements for a total of 90K available. No apothecary.
Underdog turns 40K into Petty Cash. Underdog TV 114. TV difference gives 50K for inducements for a total of 90K available. No apothecary.
Underdog turns 50K into Petty Cash. Underdog TV 115. TV difference gives 40K for inducements for a total of 90K available. No apothecary.
Underdog turns 60K into Petty Cash. Underdog TV 116. TV difference gives 30K for inducements for a total of 90K available. No apothecary.
Underdog turns 70K into Petty Cash. Underdog TV 117. TV difference gives 20K for inducements for a total of 90K available. No apothecary.
Underdog turns 80K into Petty Cash. Underdog TV 118. TV difference gives 10K for inducements for a total of 90K available. No apothecary.
Underdog turns 90K into Petty Cash. Underdog TV 119. TV difference gives 0K for inducements for a total of 90K available. No apothecary.

Finally.
Underdog turns 100K into Petty Cash. Underdog TV 120. TV difference gives 0K for inducements for a total of 100K. Gets apothecary.
But that's not topping off. That's paying full Price for the apothecary.

So I repeat. If Cyanide allows topping off, then they mucked up the Petty Cash rules.
Cheers
Martin

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Re: BB2 Full listof changes to crp

Post by Jimmy Fantastic »

I understand the rules perfectly well thank you.

Jimmy's team = 1370 team, 180 treasury, total value 1400

Plasmoid's team = 1480 team, 0 treasury.

I get 80k inducement money and then may top it up with the 30k in my treasury which was already counted.

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Re: BB2 Full listof changes to crp

Post by plasmoid »

Care to specify a page, thread or website?
Care to comment on my example above?

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