GW bringing back Specialist Games?!?

[Marlow]

Having never played the computer game my understanding, from this http://www.thenaf.net/blood-bowl/online/bb2/, is the game is close to the tabletop rules? Therefore I think the computer game will be what stops GW from making anything more than minor changes to Blood Bowl; they will want PC Games players to buy the new boxes set and be able to play the game they recognise. I would probably buy a new release just because it is Blood Bowl.

Human Catchers with AV 8 and cheaper Ogres is probably a good thing as you want the Human team to be competitive.

[Regash]

is the game is close to the tabletop rules?

Since Cyanide is not really talking to the community, nobody really knows what is now a bug, an intentional change or just an unfinished feature. Some changes have been made completely unnecessary and at random, or so it seems.

Anyway, I really hope not that these "rules" will be the base for any changes GW could actually make.
Let's just hope that this Specialst Design Studio will not hire any french morons with no love for those old games.
Let's pray that they'll people with respect for those games, that we all love.

[straume]

The biggest complaint about BB2-rules is the mandatory skills. This has been explained as a decision to speed up games, and there is no logical reason this should apply to a boxed rule set (should a box indeed appear).

Bretonnians (love them or hate them), AV8 Catchers and cheap ogres are more likely to be added.

The expensive Orc blitzer is so puzzling that I struggle to see it become "official", but that`s just me. Ageing and stadium could also easily be discarted as online online or "optional features", I guess.

[sann0638]

You are right Marlow, BB2 is very close to CRP, but with a couple of differences that are quite important.

[nonumber]

You are right Marlow, BB2 is very close to CRP, but with a couple of differences that are quite important.

What are they?

[Kaiowas]

The biggest complaint about BB2-rules is the mandatory skills. This has been explained as a decision to speed up games, and there is no logical reason this should apply to a boxed rule set (should a box indeed appear).

Bretonnians (love them or hate them), AV8 Catchers and cheap ogres are more likely to be added.

The expensive Orc blitzer is so puzzling that I struggle to see it become "official", but that`s just me. Ageing and stadium could also easily be discarted as online online or "optional features", I guess.

the orc blitzer was too cheap in the old rules to be honest. Human blitzers are 90k for the same player give or take MA/AV (which have been long deemed as "costing" the same)

the cyanide ageing thing makes me sick and i was never a fan of ageing in LRB 4 either given it was prone to totally messing up a team. you didnt want to level up some guys. As its optional on cyanide, heres hoping it will be seen in the same light for broader communities in GW tried to implement (FUMBBL would be a lot less fun for me if my guys tapped out early)

[dode74]

the orc blitzer was too cheap in the old rules to be honest. Human blitzers are 90k for the same player give or take MA/AV (which have been long deemed as "costing" the same)

The data suggests orcs do as expected with Blitzers at 80k. No need to increase the cost, and comparing across teams like that misses context.

[dco]

Opinions...

I don't play it too much, I'm more interested in miniatures but the game has changed a lot contrary to what some people say and I wouldn't mind some changes. I don't like how the star players are treated now, the filler rosters, rosters with only a pair of positions, etc. I liked when I could make a team with different guys with different skills, mutations, etc, not sure if it was the first or the second edition, now for example you have another pointless elf team with a pair of changes because of this lack of customization.

About miniatures I liked the 3rd edition but the wood elf team and human teams were better in the second edition. What I like? simple poses easy to diferentiate, no multiparts, detailed and most teams had some charm. The worst teams I've seen from GW is the Khemri, lizardmen and 5ed human teams, first is a multipart hell and not very good once assembled, the lizardmen is perhaps the most boring team I've seen. The human team is boring, difficult to differentiate positions, big, full of spikes and lacks the old charm, specially I hate the "young" Mighty Zug.

I find the same with a lot of new teams, going bigger (perhaps we'll reach 54mm, why not?), badass poses and faces...different tastes, but the diversity is good, there are still funny teams, teams that stay in a similar scale, different themes like circus, apocalyptic future, pirates, etc. I would like GW to release some old teams and new teams catering to my tastes, but if they don't I don't care, It's really a golden age, buy what you like.

[TheAzman]

....Anyway its their game, loads of people will rage quit no dought without even attempting to play it so stop your whining and buckle up your jock strap there's still NAF trophys to play for.

I was being a little bit ranty! LOL.

I'm not going to rage quit. I'm invested in Blood Bowl. As is.

What I'm rather pissed about is that it has been proven with WHFB and WH40K that GW changes the rules often enough that some minis are obsoleted before some people can even field them in their armies, due to scraping up the money for the exorbitant fees they charge. They're never content with keeping a decent rule set. They change it around just to sell more minis.

I don't want that kind of manure being pulled with Blood Bowl, let alone the other Specialist Games. I've heard from more than a few people that the Specialist Games were some of GWs best. Yet they all were ignored in favor of MOAR SPACE MARINES!!! They were abandoned.

Ownership aside, GW really does poison stuff it touches. They should keep their filthy, money-grubbing hands off.

Still, they may yet surprise us all and put out something that the community finds agreeable...
...and monkeys may yet fly out of my arse....

[nonumber]

So in terms of how the new Blood Bowl 2 differs from the LRB we're talking bits and pieces to do with how the league operates?

This I can live with. I'm talking game mechanics, do players still move in the same way? Block in the same way? Do tackle zones work the same? Still 8 turns per half?

Have any skills been changed, added or removed?

If not then the game has not changed. League play can be house ruled. The only thing I've read that effects the way the game plays is automatic skill usage which is stupid and hopefully a bug, but hey we can always ignore that in TT.

[BullBear]

I have mixed feelings on this.

On one hand, there would always be excitement to see BB back. I've long said they should always keep at least a core box in production for new players, so something like that would be nice to see.

However...

How many times has GW acted like twats over the past two decades? The game has grown (900+ at this year's WC) in spite of GWs poor behavior. We've got plenty of great companies providing minis. Companies who have been supporting the game and tournaments at the grass roots level. We've also got other companies (like Mantic) who provide similar games but actively engage their communities and provide great customer service.

Are we to run back to GW because a new group of suits are slapping a BB logo on a box? Most likely we will yes....and I include myself there. But I intend to have the self-awareness to continue to support those that have been there for us and the game all along.

The irony of our reaction to the news isn't lost on me. It reminds me of all the straight-edge kids you knew in high school, but started drinking when they turned 21. It's easy to be against something when it's not available to you...

[sann0638]

@nonumber, Marlow linked above: http://www.thenaf.net/blood-bowl/online/bb2/

[Heff]

I am not ambivalent about GW and bloodbowl. I want them to stay the hell away. I worry that they will have seen JTY's flying deathroller and decide that all deathrollers will fly, we will have a fly special rule, and it would be COOL to give it a "Strategic bombing" special rule that allows it to drop 3 fireballs a turn anywhere on the pitch.

[odinsgrandson]

Whoa, big news.

- I'd love to see GW support the game again. At the moment, it isn't the easiest game to get new players into (many players steer clear of unsupported games).

- Yes, we don't want GW to pay Age of Sigmar style attention to Blood Bowl. It would definitely be easy to ruin it. However, I don't think there's no place for some tweaking (some of Plasmoid's narrowing of the tiers wouldn't be too out of place).

- But think about this- GW's general game design laziness can work for us.

With most of GW's games, there is a terrible need for quite a few rules fixes, none of which GW ever gets right. But we're more likely to get an updated edition with as few changes as possible (sort of like Space Hulk).

AND since Cyanide have already made some changes, GW are sitting in a great spot to simply write them down and put their stamp on them. While I understand the controversy about Cyanide's alterations, I feel like they don't ruin the game.

I can see how we don't want GW to totally screw up the game that we love- but it is entirely possible that they won't screw it up.


Now, as for my opinions of the Cyanide changes:

- I feel that the humans do underperform- especially their catchers, so those tweaks seem right to me.

- Orc blitzers feel undercosted at 80k. I think the statistics tell us that new players gravitate towards orcs, and lose with them.

Looking at the raw statline, then what the team has available, Orc Blitzers really look like they should cost 10k more. It also isn't a huge change- it just means that the starting roster for orcs will have something to look forward to (right now they almost always take 4 blitzers and 4 blockers right out of the gate).

[dode74]

I think the statistics tell us that new players gravitate towards orcs, and lose with them.

Looking at the raw statline, then what the team has available, Orc Blitzers really look like they should cost 10k more. It also isn't a huge change- it just means that the starting roster for orcs will have something to look forward to (right now they almost always take 4 blitzers and 4 blockers right out of the gate).

What statistics tell us what teams new players gravitate towards? Please link if you have some.

The effect isn't just on the starting roster. A developed team will now be 2 skills down for the same TV cost. Do you think orcs need a high TV nerf?