I really hate f***king stalling

[Greyhound]

Don't forget that if they are holding the ball and trying to stall that a cage will typically use 5 of his 11 players. You have the whole rest of your team to use against his remaining players.

or not, I often stole when facing a poor opponent who will not chase the ball. With only 2-3 players by the corner and I wack around for SPP.

The way i see it: If I score I give 4 blocks to my opponent (he receives), whereas right now I'm the one whacking and slapping his team. If he doesn't have 4 players up, I see scoring as a greater chance to loose a player, than blocking straight away right now and get more SPP while I have the advantage.

[Heff]

Stalling is fine and valid BUT

I hate it when I am getting destroyed someone is three nil up and will then sit in a corner and hunt my few remaining players down with a guy he wants to level up. The other day the dice were against me, nothing worked and there was a KO on my team every turn (Unless there was an injury too). My opponent got three nil up very quickly and whatever I did failed. Two dice blitzes would double skull, people with dodge wouldn't, surehands players fumbled, KO's never returned, the apothecary tries to kill my star player, you know one of THOSE games. Having got that far up and having 11 players to my 5 or so survivors he then stalls out the last 4 turns and goes hunting because "Thats the Dark Elf way" (Don't you hate that, the guy is being a dick but tries to get Kudos for playing in "character").

I was particularly annoyed cos the way my dice were going he could have beaten me 6-0 if he had just bloody scored and I might have had a bit more fun.

This behaviour is my number 2 annoyance after the old turn 16 free foul.

The game is competitive but the fun should be co-operative

[grampyseer]

Oh man..please don't transition this into a fouling thread too!!!

I feel REality tearRiNG ItseELF AParT!!

[yumi_cheeseman]

Man, this thread makes me sad.

Babs, you make me sad too . As an almost exclusive elf/speed/agility player (wood elves, high elves, necro, goblin) and someone who hates relying on injury dice, I almost NEVER stall. The only exception is goblins, if my chainsaw is still on the pitch, I'll use up all 8 turns to try and cause as much pain as possible. I've also stalled wood elf vs dark elf to give him only 1 turn to score instead of 2, because I don't want him to score against me...

95% of my experience with stalling though, is my opponent doing it to me, and I'm 100% fine with it. It's not only a valid tactic, but it in no way ruins the game. If he stalls out at the end zone for 4 turns, that's fine with me, because that means he is almost definitely not getting another score, AND it gives me 4 turns to either try and get the ball back/stop the score, or hurt his players.

Chances are though, he's only able to stall on me if I'm heavily down players, in which case good on him, he doesn't want my guys coming back afterall . I will never consider smart play as boring or unsportsmanlike play. I just have to try and figure out what I did wrong.

Reasons to stall:
a) stop your opponent from beating you
b) stop your opponent from beating on you (free LoS hits)
c) probably more

How to prevent it:
a) defend strongly, don't allow the cage to form on the back line
b) pose a threat to the ball forcing him to score or risk losing it
c) pose a threat to his players forcing him to score or be down

But what I really think it comes down to is fluff. I enjoy the fluff around Blood Bowl, and it's a dirty, bloody, win at all costs game, where anything goes! I actively encourage turn 16 fouls, stalling, any tactic out there. Hell even when I had already lost 7 - 2 I goaded my opponent into turn 16 fouling me (telling him I wouldn't respect him if he didn't ), and it ended up SI'ing my player!

I know I'm not going to change anyones opinions on stalling so it doesn't really matter, but I'm going to enjoy the game a lot less if they don't try anything they can do beat the crap out of me in TD's and CAS.

P.S. stalling when 3 - 0 vs halflings isn't bad sport imo, it's just silly though, as if not go for that 4 - 0!

[Babs]

Yumi wrote:

Babs, you make me sad too ...
If he stalls out at the end zone for 4 turns, that's fine with me ... it gives me 4 turns to either try and get the ball back/stop the score, or hurt his players. ...
I just have to try and figure out what I did wrong.

Yumi, Don't hear me wrong (actually, you were there when Gnome beat me 6-0 ). I stall too.
Example one: Playing Virral (who I love beating since he beat me (by stalling) in Euc Bowl 2005 to win the tournament) with my dwarves against his skaven. I stalled for one or two turns.
Example two: With dwarves, against Chaos dwarves who had both Bulls KO'd (go dauntless!) Again stalled for one turn to halftime to only allow one chance (instead of two) to get the bulls back on the pitch.

With dwarves, a stall for a turn or two makes sense. You haven't (realistically) got the speed to score again yourself, so giving your opponent more time to score back doesn't help matters any.

However, stalling for more than two turns? Boring. It's nigh impossible to enjoy the stall as usually, those four (or 5 or 6) turn stalls, you've been smacked on already, and are significantly down on numbers. Very hard to get the ball back or hurt players, when _they_ already have the advantage.
And figure what you did wrong? Sometimes, nothing. They just rolled well. No strategic errors - unless putting players in tackle zones to pressure the ball carrier is a tactical error. I've been playing this game since '94. Maybe there could be style differences in the way I play that could have changed the outcome - but that was the risk I took, and lost.

So hear me carefully. I'm certainly not saying there's no place for a stall for a turn or two with the right kind of team. But there are equally annoying, boring and unsportsmanlike ways to stall. (which pretty much sums up my opinion on fouling too).
And I'm done with this thread.
I've made my opinion clear.
YMMV.

[BillyDee]

It seems to me that 'slow' teams are disadvantaged by there being a set limit of turns, being sometimes unable to score with just a few turns left. Maybe we shouldn't have a set limit of turns. Maybe we should just play that the first team to score two TDs wins the game...

[mattgslater]

Or maybe we should just accept that tempo is a resource, like with all football games.

[Joemanji]

Joemanji said way back on page 2:

Conversely, in tournament play many coaches feel (slightly) insulted if their opponent doesn't stall on them. It is like saying "I don't think you are good enough to score against me in 2/3 turns".

You miss the point Joe. In Oz at least, most people stall so you _don't_ have 2 turns. That's the whole point. If they stalled then gave you 2/3 turns - fine (almost good in fact, quite sporting of them). It's the stall that gives you only one turn (and no one turn TD option) or none that's the 'so called clever' stall, as it DENIES the opponent the chance to score.

Hi Babs,

Thanks, but I think you've missed my point. If my opponent does stall, it shows respect ... i.e. he knows I can likely score on him in the turns he leaves me before halftime. So if he doesn't stall and leaves me with some turns to score, that is a lack of respect. He is saying to me "I don't think you are good enough to score against me in 2/3 turns". I don't see how that was ambiguous from my post.

[voyagers_uk]

Crikey... I never would have believed I would hear it argued that Stalling has an Honour code...

[RandomOracle]

Not only is stalling a valid tactic, it's one of the most fun aspects of the game. Clock management, trying to stall, or trying to pressure your opponent into scoring adds a new strategic layer to the game and can require a lot of skill to pull off. A successful offensive drive isn't necessarily one where you score, but one where you score exactly when you wanted to. Likewise, you might have managed to defend successfully even when you gave up a TD, if you forced your opponent to score early. I also find that stalling is fun both with agile teams and bashy teams. Bashy teams try to advance the cage while keeping it intact and the ball carrier protected, while agile teams may switch flanks often or even keep the ball safe on their own half.

Sure, there are times when the dice are so badly against you that you can't do anything to stop a stall, but that could be true even if your opponent didn't stall. Unlucky games happen irregardless of stalling, and you just have to learn to suck it up and accept them.

[purdindas]

First of all what the Duck is a wankle?

OMG this thread has exploded!

Stalling is a necassray evil I'm afraid. It's the only way slow teams can be competitive or else their going to get outscored by elves all the time. Deal with it man.

[Patchwork]

It seems to me that 'slow' teams are disadvantaged by there being a set limit of turns, being sometimes unable to score with just a few turns left. Maybe we shouldn't have a set limit of turns. Maybe we should just play that the first team to score two TDs wins the game...

The slow teams get advantages that make up for the disadvantage of being slow. More Strength, better armor, etc.

Also first team to two TDs isn't a good idea, it means you'll never be sure how long a game might take to play (skaven vs skaven would be blindingly fast! dwarf vs dwarf could take all day!) and whichever team receives first is likely to win and it also wouldn't stop stalling completely. For example, say your orcs vs an elven team, the elves received first, ran in a quick touchdown and if you score your touchdown, they'll likely get another fast touchdown to win the game but with no time limit, sitting there untill you cripple all the elves on the pitch to give yourself a better chance of a turnover is the best chance you'd now have of winning the game.

[Skurk78]

Stalling is a necassray evil I'm afraid. It's the only way slow teams can be competitive or else their going to get outscored by elves all the time. Deal with it man.

I couldn't have said it better myself. For some teams stalling just is a great strategy. My 11 year old kid have found ways to lock me out of the end zones completely when he has the stronger team on the pitch.

YES! This can be incredibly frustrating, but it makes the game so much harder for me to win that I really enjoy it when he locks his D down.

NO! I have never and will never think that he's a bad player because he has to stall me to win. He doesn't stall with fast offensive teams.

He has proven that sometimes a great D can turn into great O. He's beaten me 1-0 a few times with a stalling defensive play.

[Don__Vito]

I <3 stalling.

[KidStealth]

Not only is stalling a valid tactic, it's one of the most fun aspects of the game..

hmm... ok. but the most fun aspect of the game is having beer at the stadium, singing with the opposing coach and then announcing the blitz with your bob, moving into 2 tacklezones, hitting this darn elf/human/whatever, catchin the ball, dodging out with the thrill of your last reroll and gfi for the endzone.
then of course the usual more beer, cheering and bellydancing on the table

aaah... thats what legendendary games are made of