New EXP/Ageing Rule

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 3:26 am

Trolling is posting a contrary or unpopular opinion for the express purpose of starting a flame war.

As for the new EXP rules...
I'd like the current system to be tested longer before it's scrapped for something that, quite honestly, looks like it does the same thing.

I really don't see what this system fixes. All I see is that it makes the rules work more like "ageing" and I really don't care about that.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:00 am

Pariah wrote:Trolling is posting a contrary or unpopular opinion for the express purpose of starting a flame war.

I agree with the definition, but i'd add a little bit to it:

Trolling is posting a contrary or unpopular opinion which you don't even believe personally for the express purpose of starting a flame war.

There are two parts that don't fit me. The one i added but which was already implied in your definition by the intent part, and that part itself. I don't post to start flame wars, that would be pretty pointless and dumb. I post to promote discussion which will lead to better rules for the game.

So Marcus, stop calling me names to start flame wars which you won't get me into, and get on with the discussion.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 8:07 am

I stand corrected. My apologies.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 1:05 pm

For all those in favor of this rule let me ask you the same thing I just asked Galak...

What happens in the unlikely event that after 10 or so games a very unlucky coach has 90% of his team age?
It's a real possibility so don't say that it just won't happen. We've all seen the dice this sort of thing. If the possibility is there then it WILL happen.
I don't think anyone should have their team ruined by ageing rules; no matter how remote the possibility.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 1:14 pm

Well, i would say tough live with it, these things happen in sport. If it happened to me i would accept it and just carry on, with the team. Then i am not a whinging person by nature. Now someone is going to say that its unfair on that team, but at the end of the day its no less unfair than having 90% of your team gaining niggles loss of stats after 10 games, just through getting beaten up. I don't see it as a problem

Relborn · Post by **Relborn** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 1:21 pm

I agree with Pariah.

The players that roll lucky (or unlucky depends on your point of view) and gain those experience rolls faster would also have a higher chance of ageing.

Btw, I am maybe alone with this opinion, but I will definately miss those MVP awards.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 1:28 pm

Relborn, have u read the new exp suggestion? No team would gain experience rolls faster. You do them every match for every elligble player on the team. You wouln't have a faster chance of aging by gaining the experience rolls faster. Its all tied to the number of matches played.

And anyway with the current aging system there is a chance that 90% of your team could suffer from aging after 10 games. Its a rare possibility but it can and will happen like Pariah said with the new system.

Relborn · Post by **Relborn** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 1:34 pm

Grumbledook:

No I missed this point totally. Okay this way it would make much more sense. If I understood you right, every player moves his game counter up after each game and after X games you roll for ageing ?

If yes then it sounds very much like an house rule I issued here a few moths ago. Nobody liked it then, so why should it be now different ?

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 1:35 pm

Equally with the current system, it's possible that a coach fails every single aging roll. I haven't sat down and worked out which is more likely.

Cheers,
Martyn

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 1:45 pm

Well each player that could have/or did play you roll a d6 for at the end of the match, every match. On a 6 they get 1 exp point, on a 1 they roll for aging (table in the first post of the thread).

You don't however roll for aging if you have less than 6 exp points allready. This means you won't have a possible chance of aging untill the game after you have got your first skill. Even then you need to roll a 1 and then you still might get no effect on the ageing table.

So assuming your player gets no other spp from throwing scoring etc. he will need to have rolled 6 6's within the first 10 games and then got a 1 after you had all these 6's and then roll (iirc) below 8 on 2d6. Now it could happen, but as you can see its unlikly.

So basically you ignore the 1 result until after you have gained your first skill.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 1:48 pm

OK just double checked i was mistaken, you ignore the 1s like i said but if you roll higher than your exp total so far you add 1 to exp rather than just on a 6, its when you have over 6 exp you add one on for a 6 and age on a 1.

So that changes the odds a little not needing 6 6's needing 1+ 2+ 3+ 4+ 5+ 6+ rolls instead

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 2:12 pm

On average it will take a player ~15 games to reach 6 EXP, and you can't age until then.

Ian

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:06 pm

Pariah wrote:For all those in favor of this rule let me ask you the same thing I just asked Galak...

What happens in the unlikely event that after 10 or so games a very unlucky coach has 90% of his team age?
It's a real possibility so don't say that it just won't happen. We've all seen the dice this sort of thing. If the possibility is there then it WILL happen.
I don't think anyone should have their team ruined by ageing rules; no matter how remote the possibility.

The other side that Pariah left out was it was possible for both system to have a player have aged by his 7th game.

However, the probablities of this are not even close.

Assuming you got your first skill in your 7th game (MVP + a completion/Cas/TD, etc) you would have a 2.78% chance of aging.

Your chances of aging on game 7 with the EXP system are 0.09%. As I said ... these are not even statistically in the same ball park.

Pariah's concern about bad/good luck causing some to have a ton of folks age by their 10th game is actually MORE likely with the current aging system than with the EXP system.

I already ran the numbers for comparing the 2 systems using a player getting 2.5 SPPs a game. Until the 25th game, the odds of aging are GREATER for an LRB aging player than an EXP player.

EVEN IF you reduce and say that the player only earns 1 SPP per a game on average the odds of said player aging will be statisitically greater from games 6 through 18 than the EXP system. It is not until game 19 that the odds of aging from the EXP system pull ahead statistically of the LRB current aging system.

Bottom line: Pariah's concern is actually more of a concern with the current aging system compared to the EXP system when you actually look at the stats. So if these is a real concern doesn't it make sense to move to the system that has the lesser odds of screwing a team at game 10???

Galak

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:11 pm

On average nothing bad will happen.
My question what about the teams that have multpile players (say 8 or 9) all age at the end of one game? Under the current system this just doesn't happen. Under the EXP system it's very possible to suddenly have an old useless team that you can't fix.

Grumbledook,
Are telling me that if you were unlucky in your rolls and in the space of 1 or 2 games had 8 players receive -1 to their stats you would be ok with it?
What if it happened right before the final match?

I don't remeber this ever happening in sports. Can you remind me of the time when half a team suddenly became old weak right before the big game?

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:13 pm

Pariah wrote: I don't remeber this ever happening in sports. Can you remind me of the time when half a team suddenly became old weak right before the big game?

The first 4 times the Broncos made the Superbowl??

Edit: OK, the next 4 times after '78. My bad.