Orc teams too powerful?

[Ghost of Pariah]

That would be my guess, Thads. We've had a couple coaches try the 4 goblin approach and they usually end up with 2 or 3 dead goblins, that they replace with lineorcs.

Again, it looks good on paper but it just doesn't fly in real life.

You can debate hypothetical situations all day long but in the end nobody has an orc dominated league. And, Zombie, if your orc plan is so unstoppable then why aren't you tearing up the tournies or the PBeM leagues with them? Why isn't anyone?

[dakkakhan]

So you have your 4 gobbos, you have your 4 BOB's on the line to knock em down, etc. you have a thrower presumably that will be making the pass after he recovers the kick (wherever that scattered off to), so I guess you have 2 blitzers to be pulling off this "blitz the guy on the goblin trick". (So the other 2 Blitzers are in Reserve) since you are fast because you have 8 players that can move 6.
I'm pretty sure I've seen you call starting with less than 9 FF pretty dumb, so on a starting team you don't even have a reroll at this point, but the dodgey little blokes may make up for that or you only have 2 BoB's so we'll let that slide.

So your question is after I you knock my 3 cannon-fodder lineman down on the LOS who's covering the 4 goblins you put in my back field? ANSWER: My other 8 players. If you don't successfully dodge your wimpy gobbos away, I'm gonna Block not blitz each of their fragile little bodies next turn. And I'll save the blitz for against the ball carrier when he holds on to the ball because he has no recievers. Good Luck.

Can it work? Sure it can. You throw it out there like it's never not worked for you. If I get my hands on the ball and your big tough position players are out there with 4 gobbos backing them up, you won't have much left by the time I score. C'mon seriously you were playing against your little brother for this to work over and over... right?

It's ok anyone with a little brother has done the same.

[Ghost of Pariah]

[Zombie]

Damn, my post didn't get through. Well, here is an abreviated version.

The year the girl won the championship with her dark elves, my orcs with 4 gobbos were the most feared in the league. We had very good coaches back then and nobody knew how to stop them. I lost because a chaos coach decided to put all his guys on the line on defense and i was stupid enough to try to capitalize by smashing them all, and left the gobbos on the bench.

Another orc team of mine following the same principle won the championship against different coaches and again, nobody knew exactly how to deal with that threat. Frankly, even i don't.

[Ghost of Pariah]

Dwarfs with a 3-4-4 defense would be a pretty damn good start. What is so hard about that? lol

[Zombie]

So you have your 4 gobbos, you have your 4 BOB's on the line to knock em down, etc. you have a thrower presumably that will be making the pass after he recovers the kick (wherever that scattered off to), so I guess you have 2 blitzers to be pulling off this "blitz the guy on the goblin trick". (So the other 2 Blitzers are in Reserve) since you are fast because you have 8 players that can move 6.

I usually put all 4 blitzers on the field for offense, with a BOB or an ogre to help them on the line. I use my BOBs more on defense. If the other team has a lot of strength on the line (e.g. undead or chaos), i replace a few blitzers with BOBs, but otherwise i don't. I use 2 throwers on offense to cover more field, as i do with all races that have throwers.

I'm pretty sure I've seen you call starting with less than 9 FF pretty dumb, so on a starting team you don't even have a reroll at this point, but the dodgey little blokes may make up for that or you only have 2 BoB's so we'll let that slide.

I was talking about a semi-experienced orc team. I start them with 2 throwers, 4 blitzers/BOBs, 4 gobbos and 1 lineorc. It doesn't take a lot of games to buy the other 4 blitzers/BOBs, so i can have all the positional players (except maybe the ogre and a BOB) before the end of the season.

So your question is after I you knock my 3 cannon-fodder lineman down on the LOS who's covering the 4 goblins you put in my back field? ANSWER: My other 8 players. If you don't successfully dodge your wimpy gobbos away, I'm gonna Block not blitz each of their fragile little bodies next turn. And I'll save the blitz for against the ball carrier when he holds on to the ball because he has no recievers. Good Luck.

Again, if you send all your players to cover the gobbos, that leaves the rest of the field open. Assuming all the gobbos have 2 players on each, no exception, i'll form a cage in the middle of your half, close enough to score next turn, and then dodge the gobbos away (which is easy to do with dodge and stunty).

Can it work? Sure it can. You throw it out there like it's never not worked for you. If I get my hands on the ball and your big tough position players are out there with 4 gobbos backing them up, you won't have much left by the time I score. C'mon seriously you were playing against your little brother for this to work over and over... right?

I don't have a little brother and all the coaches in my league are university students. Ok, some are not the brightest, but some are very impressive, and some better than me. Please don't insult them.

[Zombie]

Dwarfs with a 3-4-4 defense would be a pretty damn good start. What is so hard about that? lol

Very few people play dwarves around here. Chaos dwarves are popular now, but weren't played at all before. I've only faced dwarves oncve with orcs and like i said, i left the gobbos in reserve. Who wouldn't?

But you're right, a 3-4-4 defense with dwarves would be the best way to stop this i guess.

[Ghost of Pariah]

Well any half way adept coach with a 3-4-4 should be able to stop that plan.

[wesleytj]

Well any half way adept coach with a 3-4-4 should be able to stop that plan.

yep you don't have to be a dwarf or even a chaos dwarf...most ppl have a little tackle on your team, and if not the gobs are still only st2 and av7, with +1 to inj even. it shouldn't be too hard to take em down. besides, even with stunty, ag3 and dodge is not that scary...they'll fail one sooner or later and then you can let them have it.

[Deathwing]

Wait, Orcs are unbalanced in your experience because of access to Gobbos and you've played against Dwarves once?

[Zombie]

I've played against dwarves many times over the years, but only once using orcs, as far as i can remember.

[Zombie]

I guess that chaos, undead and lizzardmen, with their high strenght, could pull it off with a 3-4-4. But with teams that only have 0 or 1 player with ST4+, it would be too easy for me to rip off their LoS and send the gobbos straight through the middle, or just make a cage in the middle with a gobbo in the center and leave the other 3 on the bench.

I guess i'd have to try it out and see what happens.

But the mere fact that orcs can react to this by pulling a completely different play with completely different players (ST4 instead of ST2), to me, shows that the team is still too good.

Oh, and i also don't like the fact that orcs can too easily score in one turn now that big guys start with TTM. Taking the gobbos off the orc team list would solve that problem as well.

[Ghost of Pariah]

I usually put all 4 blitzers on the field for offense, with a BOB or an ogre to help them on the line. ... I use 2 throwers on offense to cover more field, as i do with all races that have throwers.

4 blitzers + 1 BoB + 4 Gobbos and 2 throwers?

I was talking about a semi-experienced orc team. I start them with 2 throwers, 4 blitzers/BOBs, 4 gobbos and 1 lineorc.

You start with 4 goblins and only 11players! That's silly! You should be replaceing those goblins all the time unless you are playing your little brother like someone stated earlier.

Again, if you send all your players to cover the gobbos, that leaves the rest of the field open. Assuming all the gobbos have 2 players on each, no exception, i'll form a cage in the middle of your half, close enough to score next turn, and then dodge the gobbos away (which is easy to do with dodge and stunty).

Number one, he doesn't need to send anybody anywhere if uses 3-4-4 and, number two, a cage with what? Goblins? Your back up plan is a cage? Oh my!

[Zombie]

Our league tends to be less violent than the norm, unfortunately. I try to teach the other coaches violence, but it doesn't catch on as much as i'd like. Tackle is a very undervalued skill around here. Most coaches only have one or two players with it in their team, at best. Couple that with few dwarf and chaos dwarf teams, and goblins last much longer in that environment than you'd expect.

Also, remember that most of the team has AV9, so it's easy to keep the apothecary for the goblins, making them live even longer.

It's also pretty hard in the beginning of a league, when the vast majority of your players have neither block nor tackle, to bring down a goblin. Once the opponents do get block and tackle on their guys, i have bought enough players that i can keep the goblins on the bench on defense by that time, and offense doesn't last long enough for them to get in real trouble.

[wesleytj]

Our league tends to be less violent than the norm, unfortunately. I try to teach the other coaches violence, but it doesn't catch on as much as i'd like. Tackle is a very undervalued skill around here. Most coaches only have one or two players with it in their team, at best. Couple that with few dwarf and chaos dwarf teams, and goblins last much longer in that environment than you'd expect.

It's also pretty hard in the beginning of a league, when the vast majority of your players have neither block nor tackle, to bring down a goblin. Once the opponents do get block and tackle on their guys, i have bought enough players that i can keep the goblins on the bench on defense by that time, and offense doesn't last long enough for them to get in real trouble.

Well obviously your league is not the standard. In your specific circumstance you may have a point. Perhaps in YOUR league orcs are too good with 4 goblins. Nobody else seems to have that issue.