Bretonnian roster... What's the deal?
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Darkson
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Re: Bretonnian roster... What's the deal?
@Chris - Griffin. I "think" they might have access to mercenary ogres, but no trees.
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crookedwookie
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Re: Bretonnian roster... What's the deal?
I wanted to chime in here with a bit of an outsider's perspective. I had never played any Warhammer or 40k, in the sake of full disclosure, but back in the early 2000s, I think, got into a few other 'Specialist' games with friends. We got a short-lived Blood Bowl group going, played a bunch of Space Hulk (which I'd played a much earlier version of in middle or high school). So I've always come at GW properties from the fringe, enjoying a lot of their spin-off type games but never wanting to get sucked into the rabbit hole of the flagship games.
That said, back in 2010, Plasmoid(Martin)'s Bretonnian team, knowing nothing of how they fit into WHFB, inspired me to get back into the game. Partly it was the design of the team, partly it was the look of his actual Force Majeur team he put together, using the Vampire Thralls to represent the more frail, timid peasant linemen. I spent the past five years, off and on, when I had the means, trying to track down an old Vampire team so I could recreate the look. It's only just recently that I started to discover some of the larger online community, places like FUMBBL, TFF, and even a couple of leagues in my local area. So I've been trying to sort of soak it all in and get back into the game to make up for lost time, not knowing that I could have been playing this entire time, in spite of a handful of friends losing interest.
I do think the very well thought-out page he wrote up for the team addresses a lot of the criticisms against his team - you can agree or not, obviously, but I do find the two big ones to be pretty weightless arguments. It's silly to me to have beef with a fourth human team while being fine with the idea of the Amazons and Norse as distinct variations on the basic stat line - never mind the four well-established, each unique ELF teams in the game. Every argument against the necessity of a Breton team can be directed at the Elf teams, and as someone pointed out very truthfully above, that does more to weaken the reasoning behind the existing teams than it does to tear down the Bretonnian team.
You could just have generic elf models and use them to represent any elf team - aside from the Tree, there was nothing about the old Wood Elf team (one of the first I collected) to distinguish them visually from the Pro or High Elves in a way that made a strong case for their existence. Certainly the bright green and yellow color scheme on their unitards in the 'official' paint scheme did nothing to make them look particularly woodsy.
They're all four built around the same 7-3-4-7 stat line (I think that's the correct order), with a few variations of a little less strength but more speed here or there for the catcher types. They sub out a handful of similar skills to give one team a bit more emphasis on passing, another on running, the High Elves trade a bit of overall speed for a bit better survival, but again - you could make the same case that four elf teams is overkill and differ from one another subtly enough that they could easily be pared down to two or three teams without taking much away from the game. But nobody seems to pick that battle, for whatever reason.
But like I said, as a bit of an outsider as far as GW franchises are concerned, I thought the design of the Breton team was simple, and elegant. It strips away anything that doesn't need to be there, it's a rare and, to me, refreshing roster that doesn't throw a half dozen types of players at you just because it can, making you decide how many blockers vs blitzers you need, how many catchers vs throwers. It captures the strata of the feudal system without beating you over the head with it, and you can argue that some of the skill choices are odd - maybe Fend is a bit of a logical stretch - but I enjoy them for the same reason I do the Slann, which I think people would have been overwhelmingly in favor of adding: it puts the spotlight on a handful of skills that are often overlooked. Forces you to use them, to learn to take advantage of them, and to adapt your play style around them, and I'm all for anything in the game that shakes up the Blodge combo that 90% of players strive to get as fast as possible.
Blood Bowl walks a pretty fine line between CLEARLY dipping into the Warhammer Fantasy universe deeply and kind of sheepishly throwing its hands up and saying "whoa - TOTALLY different universe. Just EERILY similar, that's all." The Human team is pretty well established as representing the Empire. Bretonnia is, according to a little bit of research, a neighboring nation that is second in size and power only TO the Empire, and is a feudal nation, and unless anyone is seriously trying to argue that the BLOOD BOWL Empire is a totally different empire that has no neighboring Breton team, even though Orcs, and Skaven and all the Elves, and the Lizardmen and Amazons all play and the latter two clearly hail from Lustria, which is another Warhammer country... It's a stretch. And if all of those nations and races field Blood Bowl squads, I don't think it's much of a stretch to imagine that a neighboring human nation, culturally distinct, would field their own Blood Bowl teams as well.
I've seen the argument made "well then why not the Nippons, the Araby, etc, why not every human nation?" To which I'd argue, they probably DO field Blood Bowl teams in that universe, but it's entirely likely that, much like a nation that sends one competitor to the Olympics in one particular sport, those nations simply don't have the money, or the infrastructure, or the talent pool, or even just the cultural history to be a very noticeable force in the sport. Probably the DO field teams, which compete at lower levels and more regionally, and that's why they're not represented in the game. The same way that it's entirely possible some dudes in Paraguay compete in, say, Curling, but you never see them showing up and challenging Canada for a medal.
If you're not a fan of the team, that's obviously fine. I guarantee you that if we took a poll, everyone would be happy to nominate an EXISTING team or two they'd be just as happy to see dropped from the game. Do Halflings or Goblins really do enough competitively to justify their existence in the game? Does the game really need gimmick teams that are regarded as fun to mess around with but not balanced, competitive teams?
From my own perspective, I admire the design of the Bretonnian team. I think the 2014 tweaks to it brought the blitzer/knights into a bit better balance, because I did question what justified them being a MA point faster than the Blitzers they were an obvious variation of, or how they could keep up with a lightly armored human (or basically unarmored Wood Elf) catcher. And opening up Passing to them lets them develop in some really interesting ways. Short passes, dump-offs, it gives them a little flexibility when facing a team that they can't straight up bash with. They're at least as unique from the Human team as the Pro Elves are from the High Elves, and I think balance-wise strike a sweet spot between being so good they're a ridiculous fanboy team that has no place in the game and being balanced enough to compete without dominating or being dominated by the rest of the roster.
Anyway, the highest praise I can give the team is this: when I heard that a Bretonnian team was coming to BB2, my immediate thought was "if that's not the Plasmoid version of the game, I'm going to be pissed." I stand by that. I think they're a fun addition. If you don't like them you're under no obligation to play them. You'll have to play against them, but that's true of ANY team in the game you may dislike. Seeing a fresh, interesting team with a cool concept helped get me back into the game, and I think after the game has...I don't want to say 'stagnated,' but remained preserved in amber since being abandoned by GW, I think seeing some new blood added to the mix can only be a good thing for the franchise.
That said, back in 2010, Plasmoid(Martin)'s Bretonnian team, knowing nothing of how they fit into WHFB, inspired me to get back into the game. Partly it was the design of the team, partly it was the look of his actual Force Majeur team he put together, using the Vampire Thralls to represent the more frail, timid peasant linemen. I spent the past five years, off and on, when I had the means, trying to track down an old Vampire team so I could recreate the look. It's only just recently that I started to discover some of the larger online community, places like FUMBBL, TFF, and even a couple of leagues in my local area. So I've been trying to sort of soak it all in and get back into the game to make up for lost time, not knowing that I could have been playing this entire time, in spite of a handful of friends losing interest.
I do think the very well thought-out page he wrote up for the team addresses a lot of the criticisms against his team - you can agree or not, obviously, but I do find the two big ones to be pretty weightless arguments. It's silly to me to have beef with a fourth human team while being fine with the idea of the Amazons and Norse as distinct variations on the basic stat line - never mind the four well-established, each unique ELF teams in the game. Every argument against the necessity of a Breton team can be directed at the Elf teams, and as someone pointed out very truthfully above, that does more to weaken the reasoning behind the existing teams than it does to tear down the Bretonnian team.
You could just have generic elf models and use them to represent any elf team - aside from the Tree, there was nothing about the old Wood Elf team (one of the first I collected) to distinguish them visually from the Pro or High Elves in a way that made a strong case for their existence. Certainly the bright green and yellow color scheme on their unitards in the 'official' paint scheme did nothing to make them look particularly woodsy.They're all four built around the same 7-3-4-7 stat line (I think that's the correct order), with a few variations of a little less strength but more speed here or there for the catcher types. They sub out a handful of similar skills to give one team a bit more emphasis on passing, another on running, the High Elves trade a bit of overall speed for a bit better survival, but again - you could make the same case that four elf teams is overkill and differ from one another subtly enough that they could easily be pared down to two or three teams without taking much away from the game. But nobody seems to pick that battle, for whatever reason.
But like I said, as a bit of an outsider as far as GW franchises are concerned, I thought the design of the Breton team was simple, and elegant. It strips away anything that doesn't need to be there, it's a rare and, to me, refreshing roster that doesn't throw a half dozen types of players at you just because it can, making you decide how many blockers vs blitzers you need, how many catchers vs throwers. It captures the strata of the feudal system without beating you over the head with it, and you can argue that some of the skill choices are odd - maybe Fend is a bit of a logical stretch - but I enjoy them for the same reason I do the Slann, which I think people would have been overwhelmingly in favor of adding: it puts the spotlight on a handful of skills that are often overlooked. Forces you to use them, to learn to take advantage of them, and to adapt your play style around them, and I'm all for anything in the game that shakes up the Blodge combo that 90% of players strive to get as fast as possible.
Blood Bowl walks a pretty fine line between CLEARLY dipping into the Warhammer Fantasy universe deeply and kind of sheepishly throwing its hands up and saying "whoa - TOTALLY different universe. Just EERILY similar, that's all." The Human team is pretty well established as representing the Empire. Bretonnia is, according to a little bit of research, a neighboring nation that is second in size and power only TO the Empire, and is a feudal nation, and unless anyone is seriously trying to argue that the BLOOD BOWL Empire is a totally different empire that has no neighboring Breton team, even though Orcs, and Skaven and all the Elves, and the Lizardmen and Amazons all play and the latter two clearly hail from Lustria, which is another Warhammer country... It's a stretch. And if all of those nations and races field Blood Bowl squads, I don't think it's much of a stretch to imagine that a neighboring human nation, culturally distinct, would field their own Blood Bowl teams as well.
I've seen the argument made "well then why not the Nippons, the Araby, etc, why not every human nation?" To which I'd argue, they probably DO field Blood Bowl teams in that universe, but it's entirely likely that, much like a nation that sends one competitor to the Olympics in one particular sport, those nations simply don't have the money, or the infrastructure, or the talent pool, or even just the cultural history to be a very noticeable force in the sport. Probably the DO field teams, which compete at lower levels and more regionally, and that's why they're not represented in the game. The same way that it's entirely possible some dudes in Paraguay compete in, say, Curling, but you never see them showing up and challenging Canada for a medal.
If you're not a fan of the team, that's obviously fine. I guarantee you that if we took a poll, everyone would be happy to nominate an EXISTING team or two they'd be just as happy to see dropped from the game. Do Halflings or Goblins really do enough competitively to justify their existence in the game? Does the game really need gimmick teams that are regarded as fun to mess around with but not balanced, competitive teams?
From my own perspective, I admire the design of the Bretonnian team. I think the 2014 tweaks to it brought the blitzer/knights into a bit better balance, because I did question what justified them being a MA point faster than the Blitzers they were an obvious variation of, or how they could keep up with a lightly armored human (or basically unarmored Wood Elf) catcher. And opening up Passing to them lets them develop in some really interesting ways. Short passes, dump-offs, it gives them a little flexibility when facing a team that they can't straight up bash with. They're at least as unique from the Human team as the Pro Elves are from the High Elves, and I think balance-wise strike a sweet spot between being so good they're a ridiculous fanboy team that has no place in the game and being balanced enough to compete without dominating or being dominated by the rest of the roster.
Anyway, the highest praise I can give the team is this: when I heard that a Bretonnian team was coming to BB2, my immediate thought was "if that's not the Plasmoid version of the game, I'm going to be pissed." I stand by that. I think they're a fun addition. If you don't like them you're under no obligation to play them. You'll have to play against them, but that's true of ANY team in the game you may dislike. Seeing a fresh, interesting team with a cool concept helped get me back into the game, and I think after the game has...I don't want to say 'stagnated,' but remained preserved in amber since being abandoned by GW, I think seeing some new blood added to the mix can only be a good thing for the franchise.
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Chris
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Re:
Ah, but in Ninja Warrior...Shteve0 wrote:Great post ahansa, succinctly argued. I'm with you all the way - especially the above quote.adhansa wrote:My general logic in theese question is similar to that I have seen a lot of japaneese teams play soccer and baseball, yet i have never seen them field sumo wrestlers, samurajs or ninjas.
There is I think two design philosophies behind BB team creation. The 2nd edition racial approach (everyone gets the sports positions, but teams represent a race) and the 3rd edition army approach - hello wardancers, gutter runners, etc. The game was tied more closely to that edition of WFB in look and team feel. Subsequently that approach has been taken and elements of 2nd ed put back in, but it is still based on 3rd ed. I doubt we will get any agreement now between the two!
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crookedwookie
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Re: Bretonnian roster... What's the deal?
That's a good point, the game is a bit schizophrenic that way, having kind of gotten a military makeover in an earlier edition that was only sort of half undone.
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Darkson
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Re: Bretonnian roster... What's the deal?
@crookedwookie - the designer of the game has said the human team cover the Old World humans, includihg Tilea, Estilea and Brettonia I'm happy with that.
(Sorry, on phone so can't quote the exact part of your post.)
(Sorry, on phone so can't quote the exact part of your post.)
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DinoTitanedition
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Re: Bretonnian roster... What's the deal?
The designer also said if you`re told dwarves can fly, one should ask "How high?".
Nothing against Jervis and the other designers, but the idea of covering all human races is so old one might cough up dust just speaking it out loud. I ain`t sayin` Charles Barkley should still play basketball, because it was nice see it in the old days either. After all the same designer invented the Amazon and Norse teams, according to the german Dungeon Bowl Kompendium.
Time to get a little more flexible and leave some room for invention - it brings what this game needs most, new players. Leaving everything as it is will only lead to a slow but steady decay and an additional team isn`t ruining or massively changing the game. There is nothing to be afraid about
Nothing against Jervis and the other designers, but the idea of covering all human races is so old one might cough up dust just speaking it out loud. I ain`t sayin` Charles Barkley should still play basketball, because it was nice see it in the old days either. After all the same designer invented the Amazon and Norse teams, according to the german Dungeon Bowl Kompendium.
Time to get a little more flexible and leave some room for invention - it brings what this game needs most, new players. Leaving everything as it is will only lead to a slow but steady decay and an additional team isn`t ruining or massively changing the game. There is nothing to be afraid about
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BillyDee
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Re: Bretonnian roster... What's the deal?
Sorry to correct you again Dino, but the Norseman team came from Mark Labbett, not JJ...
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DinoTitanedition
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Re: Bretonnian roster... What's the deal?
No problem Billy, since I don`t feel corrected. What I said is true.Sorry to correct you again Dino, but the Norseman team came from Mark Labbett, not JJ
After all the same designer invented the Amazon and Norse teams, according to the german Dungeon Bowl Kompendium.
If you`re right, I don`t know who`s to blame for the misunderstatement. The company, or the designer for not interfering. Frankly, it is not of importance, since it doesen`t change the point, that fresh wind is good for the game and the community.
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plasmoid
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Re: Bretonnian roster... What's the deal?
Hi Adhansa,
I'm not exactly sure why you think BB Bretonnia couldn't be feudal. Everything else seems to be the same - except with some added humour, spikes and leather
To me a BB version of Bretonnia would be with even more arrogant nobles and even more downtrodden peasants. The exaggerated cartoony version of Bretonnia.
I find that generally 'real world' arguments don't fit the discussion very well. Since rel NFL teams don't employ "midgets" to be thrown with the ball into the Endzone, we shouldn't have TTM in BB?
On top of that - take 2 kind of elf teams: Dark and Wood. One has Witch Elves. The other has Wardancers. Totally "sumos and Ninjas". That's BB for ya.
That said, I don't like porting military units into BB.
I think Witch Elfs, Wardancers, Slayers, Gutter Runners fit because they aren't just a military job that you can "take off". It is something you are.
And that's what I tried to do with the Bretonnian team: Reflect the culture/nation - not the military/army-list.
Cheers
Martin
I'm not exactly sure why you think BB Bretonnia couldn't be feudal. Everything else seems to be the same - except with some added humour, spikes and leather
To me a BB version of Bretonnia would be with even more arrogant nobles and even more downtrodden peasants. The exaggerated cartoony version of Bretonnia.
Well, you did just describe every Nippon team ever posted online.My general logic in theese question is similar to that I have seen a lot of japaneese teams play soccer and baseball, yet i have never seen them field sumo wrestlers, samurajs or ninjas. Why would BB nippon teams?
I find that generally 'real world' arguments don't fit the discussion very well. Since rel NFL teams don't employ "midgets" to be thrown with the ball into the Endzone, we shouldn't have TTM in BB?
On top of that - take 2 kind of elf teams: Dark and Wood. One has Witch Elves. The other has Wardancers. Totally "sumos and Ninjas". That's BB for ya.
That said, I don't like porting military units into BB.
I think Witch Elfs, Wardancers, Slayers, Gutter Runners fit because they aren't just a military job that you can "take off". It is something you are.
And that's what I tried to do with the Bretonnian team: Reflect the culture/nation - not the military/army-list.
Cheers
Martin
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plasmoid
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Re: Bretonnian roster... What's the deal?
Hi Spubbbba,
The flip side of that is you could easily roll the elf teams back into just 1 team - and just paint their unitards black for Darkies, green for Woodies, white for Blandies and, what, silver for the Pros? Or you could roll further back up the slippery slope and just roll all teams into a single 'Humanoids' team. And then just bring different coloured dice to the game. Green for orcs?
Cheers
Martin
Any way you spin it, there were human nations 1st edition (Pre-Bretonnia Albion?), human nations in 2nd edition (Norse) and human nations in version of the game that we're all currently playing.Bretonnians were also in 2nd edition, using the human roster.
I can sympathize with that - but the fact is that in the game we're all playing there are 4 elf sides, 3 human sides, 4 undead sides and 3 Chaos sides (not counting the CDs). You wanting to reduce the number doesn't change that..I'd happily drop Necros & Pro Elfs for being too similar along with Amazons & Khemri if they couldn't be fixed. No need to add new rosters, 24 is plenty if not too much.
Sure you could.It's simple, if you want Bretonnians use humans without an ogre. If you want Khorne then take chaos with lots of frenzy and bash skills. You could easily models the beastmen as bloodletters and the mino as a daemon prince.
The flip side of that is you could easily roll the elf teams back into just 1 team - and just paint their unitards black for Darkies, green for Woodies, white for Blandies and, what, silver for the Pros? Or you could roll further back up the slippery slope and just roll all teams into a single 'Humanoids' team. And then just bring different coloured dice to the game. Green for orcs?
Cheers
Martin
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plasmoid
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Re: Bretonnian roster... What's the deal?
Anyway, I'm pleasantly surprised to see that judging from this thread the hate towards Brets isn't as universal as it has appeared previously on TFF.
Cheers
Martin
Cheers
Martin
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spubbbba
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Re: Bretonnian roster... What's the deal?
The human team doesn't represent the Empire it represents the old world humans, basically Europeans in a weird steampunk version of the warhammer world. I'd argue the Empire has a far greater claim to getting their own team as they are a lot more interesting than Bretonnia. That's certainly what both GW and the fans think as the Empire are one of the most popular lists and Bretonnia one of the least.
Not only does the Empire already have cheap infantry and lots of cool cavalry including people riding Demigryphs and clockwork horses. But they also have loads of cool war machines and weapons, warrior priests, flagellants and older lists had dwarfs, halfings and ogres in the normal list. So if anything normal humans could be renamed Bretonnians and an Empire team added with players wielding blunderbuss's or bombs and having some sort of low armoured frenzied player as flagellants and add a couple of halflings to the team.
Regarding peasants, they may make up the bulk of the Bretonnian population but not their armies. Mostly it's the knights doing the fighting with the peasants adding support.
Both mounted yeomen and knights errant had normal human stats and could easily be used as the linemen with knights of the realm or better being the blitzer/blocker types. There are plenty of fit and healthy people without the need to recruit from the riff raff.
Skaven use slaves far more in their society, but those are not in the team as there are plenty of normal skaven. Chaos dwarfs having hobgoblins makes sense as they are rather low on numbers, mind you I have a fondness for the 2nd edition evil dwarf team over the WHFB port we have now.
I think we have about the right amount of teams and need to be careful not to dilute the core key for the sake of it. By all means add as many teams as you want to your league, but I'm wary of splintering an already small community. As I've said before I would happily drop pro elfs or necros as they don't add much, but I don't think khorne, bretonnians or apes are better than either of those to take their place.
I say go big or go home, if a new team is to be added it should be something that stands out. I can see this being attempted with the Brets, but many of the choices and changes look to have been made just to be different. Things like the AG2 on the linemen, catch and passing access on the blitzers look to have been done just because no one else had those. To me juggernaut perfectly represents what they are famous for, the devastating charge, it's a shame horns is a mutation rather than a skill as that would work well too.
Not only does the Empire already have cheap infantry and lots of cool cavalry including people riding Demigryphs and clockwork horses. But they also have loads of cool war machines and weapons, warrior priests, flagellants and older lists had dwarfs, halfings and ogres in the normal list. So if anything normal humans could be renamed Bretonnians and an Empire team added with players wielding blunderbuss's or bombs and having some sort of low armoured frenzied player as flagellants and add a couple of halflings to the team.
Regarding peasants, they may make up the bulk of the Bretonnian population but not their armies. Mostly it's the knights doing the fighting with the peasants adding support.
Both mounted yeomen and knights errant had normal human stats and could easily be used as the linemen with knights of the realm or better being the blitzer/blocker types. There are plenty of fit and healthy people without the need to recruit from the riff raff.
Skaven use slaves far more in their society, but those are not in the team as there are plenty of normal skaven. Chaos dwarfs having hobgoblins makes sense as they are rather low on numbers, mind you I have a fondness for the 2nd edition evil dwarf team over the WHFB port we have now.
I think we have about the right amount of teams and need to be careful not to dilute the core key for the sake of it. By all means add as many teams as you want to your league, but I'm wary of splintering an already small community. As I've said before I would happily drop pro elfs or necros as they don't add much, but I don't think khorne, bretonnians or apes are better than either of those to take their place.
I say go big or go home, if a new team is to be added it should be something that stands out. I can see this being attempted with the Brets, but many of the choices and changes look to have been made just to be different. Things like the AG2 on the linemen, catch and passing access on the blitzers look to have been done just because no one else had those. To me juggernaut perfectly represents what they are famous for, the devastating charge, it's a shame horns is a mutation rather than a skill as that would work well too.
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DinoTitanedition
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Re: Bretonnian roster... What's the deal?
Mate, the Cyanide portation has probably brought more new players to the game than the former publisher itself in the last ten years. The only people splitting off from the community might be the ones unwilling to adjust to the small changes that have been brought to us since the Chaos Edition release. From my point of view that is far less people than the number of new ones joining the game. I feel that is a success.
I also want to state, that the NAF is a big community organisation, but there is plenty of others as well. In Germany the DBBC is of greater importance to the local players. Don`t get me wrong, this is nothing against the NAF, I think it is good, that it exists. I just want to clarify, that it is not the entire community, wich I get the impression you might think, even though you haven`t mentioned the NAF yet.
And as many already have stated, the latest iteration of BB is just based off the WHFB 6th/7th edition timeline and is heavily persiflaging it and the sport of American Football. Influences are there, but not in the huge amount you describe them.
I also want to state, that the NAF is a big community organisation, but there is plenty of others as well. In Germany the DBBC is of greater importance to the local players. Don`t get me wrong, this is nothing against the NAF, I think it is good, that it exists. I just want to clarify, that it is not the entire community, wich I get the impression you might think, even though you haven`t mentioned the NAF yet.
If you refer to that, than again, that stetement is valid only for yourself, not the entire community. You basically describen what is played more often in Warhammer, but that is also heavily based on what army is successfull at the moment. I can only speak for myself, but if I reimagine a fantasyworld, I`d rather bang a flail and sword against armoury than simply pull a trigger.That's certainly what both GW and the fans think as the Empire are one of the most popular lists and Bretonnia one of the least.
And as many already have stated, the latest iteration of BB is just based off the WHFB 6th/7th edition timeline and is heavily persiflaging it and the sport of American Football. Influences are there, but not in the huge amount you describe them.
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adhansa
- Experienced
- Posts: 151
- Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:44 am
Re: Bretonnian roster... What's the deal?
plasmoid wrote:Hi Adhansa,
I'm not exactly sure why you think BB Bretonnia couldn't be feudal. Everything else seems to be the same - except with some added humour, spikes and leather
To me a BB version of Bretonnia would be with even more arrogant nobles and even more downtrodden peasants. The exaggerated cartoony version of Bretonnia.
Well, you did just describe every Nippon team ever posted online.My general logic in theese question is similar to that I have seen a lot of japaneese teams play soccer and baseball, yet i have never seen them field sumo wrestlers, samurajs or ninjas. Why would BB nippon teams?
I find that generally 'real world' arguments don't fit the discussion very well. Since rel NFL teams don't employ "midgets" to be thrown with the ball into the Endzone, we shouldn't have TTM in BB?
On top of that - take 2 kind of elf teams: Dark and Wood. One has Witch Elves. The other has Wardancers. Totally "sumos and Ninjas". That's BB for ya.
That said, I don't like porting military units into BB.
I think Witch Elfs, Wardancers, Slayers, Gutter Runners fit because they aren't just a military job that you can "take off". It is something you are.
And that's what I tried to do with the Bretonnian team: Reflect the culture/nation - not the military/army-list.
Cheers
Martin
One could always discuss fluff, as long as it has bin left a blank paper by the designers it's up to each and everyone to imagine what feels appropriate.
All below IMHO.
BB fluff feels a lot "Jules Verne" while the Brettonia fluff is "Camelot". In my mind that would not work together, Brettonia would in a "Jules Verne"-warhammerlike world have developed away from "Camelot" to something more in line with victorian England or France. BB-players in full armour or dressed up as men-at-arms as in the Cyanide artwork looks so out of place.
I surely am one of the more extreme "2nd ed school"-guys.
I have no problem that BB is a boardgame and not a represantation of reality and that a lot of things doent really make sence. Yet in all teamsposts i know of players play positions depending what roles are needed to be represented on the field and not a social class or background. Different races have to be represented somehow, but when something named yeomen and witch elves appears on the roster that really feels unnessessarly not plausable in a team sport. Except getting a bigger freeeride on the warhammer trademark i really don't see the point of that design decision and i don't agree on it.
To me the roster is really nice, it could represent teams where players have different talent and that they because of that get majorly different roles in the team. But not knights and peasants, unless soneone wants to customize their models in that direction.
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Dr. Von Richten
- Super Star
- Posts: 876
- Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:46 pm
Re: Bretonnian roster... What's the deal?
For those who missed it: GW has killed off the Warhammer world pretty much completely with their 'End Times' series. Whether there wil be a new version of 'Warhammer Fantasy', and if so, what it will look like, is at this point unknown, but I think it's fair to say that the 'but it's/isn't part of the Warhammer setting' argument (as opposed to the 'but it's/isn't part of the Blood Bowl setting' argument) has been rendered invalid.
Also, I vote for a Genestealers Team. Omnomnomnom!
Also, I vote for a Genestealers Team. Omnomnomnom!
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