Khorne Announcement from the NAF

[DixonCider]

does anyone think in the future the Khorne roster will be approved/tweeked so that it could be added to the table top rules? What changes do you think would have to be made? Is approval from GW required to make a team NAF official?

[EastCoast]

I like the roster and think it is interesting and fun, I feel cyanide was always going to have a tough one as it seems there is some animosity towards the pc version ( is that the correct word to use hehe ) The community were complaining saying its going to be OP, then the roster was released and people were saying this is not the killers khorne are! I think its ok.

What I don't understand in the statement is about it not being in fluff, yet to me its more fluffy than a bunch of space frogs? or am I not understanding something about slann?


what would happen in GW released an updated LRB/CRP and included khorne ?

Based on the response from the NAF, it sounds that if a CRP were issued with the Khorne team, they would accept it. However, since it appears GW won't be doing that, then it appears their decision to not include the roster will stand.

[Heff]

Well NAF has said that the door is not closed but the roster is not finished

[Darkson]

What I don't understand in the statement is about it not being in fluff, yet to me its more fluffy than a bunch of space frogs? or am I not understanding something about slann?

Slann have been in WFB longer than they've been in 40K, and not as the stoopid bloated things we have now. Add in that they were an official 2nd ed BB race, and they've got a pretty good case for being included.

Khorne on the other hand were only official briefly in 4th edition, and that whole edition would rather be forgotten by it's creator (Jervis), let alone anyone else.
The Khorne fluff fails - Pass access, no mutations, differences in Heralds and 'Letters (given that Heralds are just better 'Letters) and others.


The roster itself, if renamed to something that fits the character of the roster, like Savage Orcs, isn't that bad (though I'd still remove P access from the lineman position). But a Khorne roster it isn't.

[dode74]

does anyone think in the future the Khorne roster will be approved/tweeked so that it could be added to the table top rules? What changes do you think would have to be made? Is approval from GW required to make a team NAF official?

It needs 6 star players and proper playtesting at the very least. It probably also needs approval from GW.

[Jdbecks]

What I don't understand in the statement is about it not being in fluff, yet to me its more fluffy than a bunch of space frogs? or am I not understanding something about slann?

Slann have been in WFB longer than they've been in 40K, and not as the stoopid bloated things we have now. Add in that they were an official 2nd ed BB race, and they've got a pretty good case for being included.

I see, cheers for sharing

[burgun824]

A lull...time to go to the bathroom and get more popcorn.

[plasmoid]

I don't mind the verdict. Personally I quite like the roster, and with several years since the previous roster infusion I think it was nice with something new to play with. But as i said, can't fault the verdict.

That said, I can't help but mention that some of the reasoning isn't all that sound:

If we let Khorne in now under this approval mechanism, how do we say no to any future races coming in from the same route to market? We cannot because there will be global confusion about which races are approved and those not. Once we say yes to one….it stands to reason and logic that you would have to accept all. If you don’t, there will be chaos (no pun intended).

1) The slippery slope argument doesn't stand up. There is nothing forcing the NAF to accept future rosters if they accept the Khorne one. Each such roster should (IMO) be judged on individual merits ( - and if Khorne is found wanting in this regard, then so be it).
2) I don't think there is more or less confusion either way. People who care about the NAF, go to NAF sanctioned tournaments or even know what the NAF is, will know where to find the NAF's stance on any new roster. Those who don't know or care about the NAF will do with any new roster as they please.
Or to put it differently: This (the current) decision will only affect those who know about it. And that would be true no matter which way the verdict had gone.

...That said, it is definately a sound decision to wait for further playtest results to come in
But how much will be enough? Hard to say.
Cheers
Martin

[VoodooMike]

And yet I am the one here who is setting himself up as some sort of avatar for the community.

Well, that'd be the difference between "of" and "for" I suppose. I am an avatar of all things good and pure, but I'm certainly not an avatar of the Blood Bowl community as my views do not universally represent the norm. I act, I feel, in the best interests of the community... either as it is, or as it could be, but that's not the same thing as speaking for it.

By troll I mean that you come here every so often and quote mine peoples posts to make personal comments about them and then imply motives they quite possibly do not have, while sitting in your ivory tower casting down thunderbolts onto us mere mortals below.

This may be shocking, but I only post on topics on which I have something to say... and telling you that you're being self-indulgent is not a "personal comment", especially when it is part of explaining why I think you're being so. Personal is, however, when you just start tossing names at people and refuse to address any topical elements of postings. You're absolutely welcome to call me names, but at least do it IN ADDITION to addressing the topic, rather than in place of it.

People said we are aging as a group, I suggested why that might be. Suddenly I am Captain Ageist the Defender of the Soul of Bloodbowl! Mate if that's what you need me to be that's what I am.

You are, in fact, being ageist in this case. While the average age of Blood Bowl players may be well into the 30s, the average number of years those people have been playing the game puts the time they started playing it smack dab in the middle of the age demographic you claim lack the maturity for the game. Now, don't get me wrong, I hate teenagers with a passion... that's because I'm almost 40 and it is a mandatory right of passage into middle-age. I don't think we were any better at that age, and a good chunk of us were that age when we took up the game and stuck with it.

It's also an assumption to say that it's an ageing group because we're 2 years older than the average of a 2yo poll. That doesn't take into account new players etc from. the last time the poll was bumped.

It's not a bad assumption, however, that there will be little or no change based on that previous information. It's more of an assumption to say it will be significantly different today than it was 2 years ago considering there has been no event that would precipitate such a change. The introduction of Cyanide's BB game was probably the most significant event for Blood Bowl in a long time - it exposed the game to new players of all ages (typically younger than the "previous" average) and gave them an easy in. That was more than 2 years ago.

I also don't think that Cyanide's BB's failure to keep most of the people who tried the game is based on their incomplete or improper implementation of the game. Those of use who moved from tabletop to PC play (not exclusively, obviously, but to some degree) got started in the "beer and pretzels" environment, and have the good times we had/have doing the social gaming as a foundation for our enjoyment... people who came in straight via the PC game have none of that, they only have the pure game mechanics and non-social match play to base their opinions on, and those are... a bit lacking in comparison.

But seeing as, before they dropped support completely, BB (and all the Specialist range) was promoted for the mature gamer, I'm not surprised the demographic here is older than say 40k.

Older, relatively speaking... how old were you when you got started playing Blood Bowl? How old were the other players in your first league?

What I don't understand in the statement is about it not being in fluff, yet to me its more fluffy than a bunch of space frogs? or am I not understanding something about slann?

I think the fluff objection has always been that the team doesn't mesh well with the fluff regarding Khorne. It'd be like having a high MA, low ST ogres team - the objection wouldn't be to the fact that they're ogres in name, but to the fact that they're not ogres in statistics. Intricate and interesting fluff is what the GW games usually have going for them... far more than clever game mechanics. BB with or without the fluff is a lot like Uma Thurman with or without makeup.

[Heff]

Voodoo

I'm sorry, EVERYTHING you have written about my posts has been aggressive and personal. I have responded in kind. I now find myself on the wrong end of my brothers favorite saying

"never argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"

Now that I will grant you IS a personal attack.

[Darkson]

But seeing as, before they dropped support completely, BB (and all the Specialist range) was promoted for the mature gamer, I'm not surprised the demographic here is older than say 40k.

Older, relatively speaking... how old were you when you got started playing Blood Bowl? How old were the other players in your first league?

16 or 17 when I tried 1st, 18-19 when I started 2nd, late 20's/early 30's when we started our first proper league (the guys I game with now - approx LRB1 or 2 era).

[Shteve0]

First started at about 14, abandoned it soon afterwards. Started again mid-twenties.

Incidentally, the majority of our local club (approx 10 players for forthcoming season) are in their twenties or early thirties. I had the great pleasure of visiting Smeborg's club down in Christchurch last year for a few games, and they have some coaches even younger still.

[SillySod]

"never argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"

..... but VoodooMike isn't an idiot. Not in the conventional sense.

And you were being ageist.

[Daht]

Started around 15, played for a decade, took another decade off before the Cyanide game got me playing again.

[Heff]

And you were being ageist.

that was not my intent and I am sorry