Vampires

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 1:36 pm

Having played against one of the vampire teams in the MBBL, my opinion is that COFAB is not really negative enough, and that the Vampire Lord is still too powerful. My opponent's vampire team managed to thoroughly beat my dark elf team and SI two players. If the vampire team is supposed to be worse than average, then this version doesn't appear to be.

ObDisclaimer: It is possible, however, that my BB skill is as poor as I claim it to be and that the my opponent would have ripped me to bits with halflings too.

Martyn

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 2:33 pm

martynq: If I understood the reasoning behind the team, it was intended to win 50% of the games it played. I personally have doubts about whether a team with 4's in strength and agility can be well balanced. Not letting them use rerolls or limiting them to 3 AG with Agility skill access seemed a better solution, but I haven't seen them played yet.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 2:42 pm

Sorry ... Martyn ... I'm attributing that to two things.

1) Joe is a great coach
2) You have problems with DEs.

My Halfling team normally plays all the TR 100 rookie teams for their opening games. I've lost by more than 1 TD three times with the team and one of those was a 15-0 (5-0) killing by Joe's Vampires. Now I also played Torg's Vampires and that match was close.

From having played Vampires for 2 league seasons in 3rd edition, Joe is a great Vampire coach and your DEs getting pasted by them doesn't really led me to believe the team is overpowered. The fact that David Allen's Khemri team with AG 2 and AG 1 on his players managed to get a win against Joe's team this round when Hypnotic Gaze should have allowed an Old OFAB team to cut through them like butter is a positive to me.

Look at the stats for the Vampires in the MBBL so far (13 games played)

7 total wins against:
Dark Elf
Goblin
Halfling (twice)
Norse
Skaven
Vampire

6 total losses against:
Chaos Dwarf
Khemri
Dwarf (three times)
Vampire

So they have problems with the bashy teams even though those teams are mostly AG 2 or 1. How they will fair against the Agile teams ... well I'd like to see more information on that before I decide.

Galak

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 2:53 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:Sorry ... Martyn ... I'm attributing that to two things.

1) Joe is a great coach
2) You have problems with DEs.

Plus he got stiletto on his vampire lord - it might have been easier without that!

Yeah, Joe probably is a great coach - time we banned him!!!!

I have problems with DEs? Seems to be the case... I just don't know why - I've played DEs since I first began to play the game and have coached them more often than any other team. The b@st@rds just won't win for me at the moment.

Martyn

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 3:15 pm

martynq wrote:Plus he got stiletto on his vampire lord - it might have been easier without that!

Next season ... that result won't be on the Handicap table anymore.

I have problems with DEs?

I was just quoting you Martyn ... I was just quoting you. No slam intended.

Galak

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 3:38 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:I was just quoting you Martyn ... I was just quoting you. No slam intended.

Sorry... no slam taken. I was just posing a rhetorical question and considering it.

Martyn

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 6:05 pm

martynq wrote:Yeah, Joe probably is a great coach - time we banned him!!!!

Yeah, we've got one of them in our league, I think they should be banned at the rules review for upsetting the game balance

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 6:18 pm

Munkey:

I don't know how that's going to effect game balance, Munkey. Maybe any coach with a winning percentage above 70% should have an extra handicap against, and anyone over 85% should have a free pick 'em handicap. That'll teach them to win too many games...

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 6:21 pm

They keep winning, that's the problem.

The statistics say that with two players per game each player should only win 50% of his games

darthnoir · Post by **darthnoir** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 6:25 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:
martynq wrote:Plus he got stiletto on his vampire lord - it might have been easier without that!
Next season ... that result won't be on the Handicap table anymore.

Is this an MBBL specific change? Or is this a know Rules Review change for this coming October?

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 6:36 pm

sean newboy wrote:When was the last time u made a comment that wasnt negative on this forum? How often is it compared to the positive ones?

sean newboy wrote:...griping about the fact that i think fouls and secret weapons should go under the same ruleset.

I have never griped about it. I suggested a new rule. There are several posts where I have suggested new things. Just because you don't wiosh to play a part in the Living end of the LRB that doesn't mean all I do is gripe.

If you want to come here and gush about rules then that's great but I would rather participate in making rules better. If you call that griping then I'm sorry. As for being positive. I have contributed to nearly every rules building discusion in a positive way and have started some myself.
So if you don't want anything to change it and you think the LRB is perfect and should just be the RB then why don't you just take it and run your league with it? Others would like to contribute to the LIVING end of it. If you call that griping, then I'm sorry for you. See, people like you are my problem. I express my disatisfaction with Fanatic, yes, I also playetst and brainstorm new rules all the time. But apparently wanting to change the rules and participate in the process is griping. You are probably the type of person that calls people who protest a bunch of complainers. And people who vote are stupid right? Shut up.

So please point me to the contribution you have made in this thread that is something besides flaming others for not thinking like you do. It's not there is it? Way to go. If you don't mind I'd like to discuss COFAB and my experience playtesting it. Is that ok with you or is that going to be more griping?

ENDING THE FLAME FEST

When I played Darkson's vamp team I found it completely enjoyable and not over the top even though he handed me my arse. Balance was hard to figure since I was playing the TBB ogre team and where I wasn't boneheaded I was hypnotized. Although towards the end of the match he was getting very low on thralls. I think if I had been playing a chaos team, or something equally bashy, and targeted his thralls in the first half he would have had some real trouble in the 2nd half. IMO COFAB works extremely well and is leaps and bounds over the normal OFAB. The vampires seemed to be a great team...finally! I still think they are a pretty nasty team to play against and when they get developed they will be really nasty but I think this is really unavoidable. If you want the vampire feel you have to have some nasty players. COFAB keeps pretty good tabs on them though and I'm sure that playtesting will show them to be no more powerful than any chaos or undead team.

ZanzerTem · Post by **ZanzerTem** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 7:23 pm

Off Topic: What does COFABstand for? I know what OFAB is (Off For A Bite), but COFAB?

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 8:09 pm

c is for cerdival as he was the one who came up with it

i think thats the right name apologies if i got it wrong

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 8:31 pm

COFAB makes the vampire roll a D6 for every action. if he rolls a 1 then he must move towards the nearest thrall and make an injury roll on him. If he can't make it to a thrall he must go to the reserves box.

ZanzerTem · Post by **ZanzerTem** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 8:43 pm

Yea, I knew what the rule was (I'ts on galak's site) but I could not for the life of me figure out what the "C" stood for. Now I know, and it makes sense too