Glory Rule vs. Stalling out the timer

Dragoonkin · Post by **Dragoonkin** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 5:40 am

I don't mind teams stalling the clock to limit my ability to score.

I do mind lying on the ground and having the crap beat out of my team 'til they're all dead or close to.

No matter how fast a WElf or Skaven team scores...they don't hurt/kill your players...that's how I look at a "Glory Favours Fast Teams" debate. You may not WIN against a one-turner team, but your team isn't going to come out of it with three dead people and five new Nigglers.

I know I'd rather lose with a live team than win with a beat-into-uselessness one.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 11:28 am

I'd rather take the lumps and keep winning. The skanky biatchen (Skaven) are in the finals of the ECBBL, to be played tomorrow. We've taken more casualties, net and gross, than any other team in the league. We've also got more touchdowns, net and gross, than any team. Last 4-1 victory I had was with only 1 player on the pitch by the end.

It's a personal preference thing. Personally I'm happy to play that way as I get a kick out of it. Have my opponent pound on me all day long and when they make a mistake or fail a roll, pounce and score.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 3:59 pm

Please do me a favor...

Everyone who is in favor of the Glory Rule and has NEVER run a Dwarf team for an entire season take one step forward.

Norse · Post by **Norse** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 4:04 pm

I'm not in favour of a glory rule...

I'm in favour of more careful opponent selection...

Dragoonkin · Post by **Dragoonkin** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 11:08 pm

Yes that's sort of my opinion on it too...I don't LIKE the Glory Rule, but I hate people beating your team when you can't do anything more. If your entire team is on the ground and all you do on your turn is roll them over and you're STILL not getting scored on, that's really just poor sportsmanship, not clock control.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 11:21 pm

Like I said, that's your fault. Why did you let your entire team get stunned? Why didn't you hold a player back to threaten a ball carrier?

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 11:24 pm

Dragoonkin wrote:Yes that's sort of my opinion on it too...I don't LIKE the Glory Rule, but I hate people beating your team when you can't do anything more. If your entire team is on the ground and all you do on your turn is roll them over and you're STILL not getting scored on, that's really just poor sportsmanship, not clock control.

no i don't think it's bad sportsmanship of any sort...it's just smart play. if you don't like it do something about it. if you can't do anything about it then that's your own fault.

Dragoonkin · Post by **Dragoonkin** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 11:59 pm

I wish there was like a little thing I could flip on/off that says "Let my entire team get stunned / Don't let my entire team get stunned", but sadly there isn't.

Maybe it's just the fact that the only real "hurt your team" coach I've played against was a very big, very angry man that liked to think he knew everything about everything (by the way, every army in Fantasy/40k is cheesy except the ones he uses) who bored/annoyed the f*** out of me whenever we played because he'd get on a big tirade whenever he couldn't hurt me, then act like he was the world champ or something every time he did. Dwarves against Amazons, BTW.

</vent>

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:07 am

well then what needs to be fixed isn't the rules, but that guy.

there are plenty of people who are no fun to play no matter what team, no matter what game, no matter whether they stall or score.

there are also plenty of people who are a BLAST to play, no matter what team, no matter what game, etc...even if they foul you every turn with a dirty player.

think of all the bb players you know. they are either in group 1, group 2, or more likely somewhere in between. play all the games you can with the good guys and avoid the jackasses as much as possible.

our store has a guy a lot like the one you described...we all call him "angry jim" yes even to his face. We had too many guys at our store named jim so we gave them all nicknames...he's "angry jim". Anyway he's an army guy, and he plays warhammer and 40k (i never approached him about joining our bb league and he's never asked so we'll just leave well enough alone... hehehe)

anyway, he thinks since he's an army grunt, he knows exactly how 40k ought to work, and every army except imperial guard is cheese...and every fantasy army except high elves is cheese....guess what armies he has...

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:13 am

Dragoonkin wrote:I wish there was like a little thing I could flip on/off that says "Let my entire team get stunned / Don't let my entire team get stunned", but sadly there isn't.

i forgot to touch on this one in the previous reply...sorry.

it depends on what team you are, and what team you're playing against. in your example (dwarf/amazon) it can be tough but you have to try to use your speed and agility to your best advantage...your one big thing (dodge) is all but neutralized but you are still ag3 all around and faster than the dwarves.

the point is if the guy is sitting near the end zone and not scoring, and you can't stop him, it's his advantage, and his right to exploit. you need to have a team that's good enough to either make him score, or take the ball from him so he can't.

it's the exact opposite of the skaven, for example. you can't get mad at him for scoring fast and being sneaky and all...you just have to play better defense and do something about it.

sorry i know it sounds kinda harsh, but it's a strategy game. if somebody has a good strategy you can't stop, and they aren't cheating, they deserve to beat you. your job as their opponent is to either have superior coaching or a superior team to counter their strategy.

Warprat · Post by **Warprat** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 2:14 am

Pariah wrote:

Please do me a favor...

Everyone who is in favor of the Glory Rule and has NEVER run a Dwarf team for an entire season take one step forward.

Sorry Pariah, I am in favor of the Glory Rule and have run a Dwarf team for an entire season. Understand your point of view... used to believe as you do... changed my mind after using the rule.

Actually, after my Dwarf team played with the poorest record all season, they have redeemed themselves by making it to the Championship game (which has yet to be played, probably against the Woodies). The Glory Rule has helped them more than hurt. Really, the Dwarves move so slow, they are unaffected by it. The Woodies by comparison, are forced to score, or be pummelled in the mid field. HeHeHe...

Warprat ;)

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 2:19 am

That's fine. My league is gonna start using the "Gung HO" rule.

You must throw all possible blocks before ending your turn or you are charged with IP.

I think this will stop all of that silly elf dodging backwards stuff. I hate when they do that because it robs me of my spp's! Strategy? That's not strategy, it's just beardy and robs me of what should be rightfully mine!

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 4:01 am

LOL! Yeah, that's the spirit!

Seriously, i can't see such a rule being much worse than the glory rule.

D'Arquebus · Post by **D'Arquebus** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 8:19 am

Well said Pariah and Zombie. I could not agree more.

Norse said (a couple of days/pages ago)

"how badly do you need to win"...

if the answer is so badly that you are willing to offend an opponent, lose a friend and spoil a game... then go for it....

Personally I wouldn't wish to play someone who would be offended by such tactics.

I have used the hold the ball play several times (not all the time, personally I like to score more, for the SPPs especially on slow teams) and with both slow and speed teams.

In the dim dark past (I think 3rd Ed with some of JJ's rookie rules thrown in, plus sigurds) I played Skaven. Now I whipped all the other teams for speed and TDs winning all my games, except against the Chaos Dwarves. They beat me every time and crushed my team as well. Most games by 1 TD because they strolled it over against the 1 or 2 rats left on the field.

Now I never complained when I was outscoring everyone else and I never complained (at least about the tactics of my opponent) when the Chaos Dwarves BEAT me. I knew it was simply a matter of my not playing the correct tactics to cope with the LEGITIMATE and well executed knock-em-down and kill-em attack of my opponent. Frustrating yes, but it has not happened very often in my whole career over hundreds of games because I have played better.

On another note, Warprat said

The Woodies by comparison, are forced to score, or be pummelled in the mid field. HeHeHe...

I would disagree with that equally as much. I can and have used delaying tactics with both Humans and Dark Elves and would not like to see the option taken away from a coach to do so. In one Final I held the ball for 4 turns towards the end of the 2nd half before scoring, only allowing the dwarf team 2 turns to score it back. That necesitated a two turn passing play which I stopped with little effort. With 5 turns he could have stood a very good chance of putting it into overtime and I was already down to 7 players.

So to add my (slightly tired) voice to the argument I would say no to a glory rule. I would probably have to go against the "Gung HO" rule as well Pariah. Sorry but you haven't really sold me on that one yet.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 5:26 am

I think the "Gung Ho" remark was slightly "Tongue in cheek"