Ogres, Dwarfs, Secret Weapons

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 2:52 pm

Its 4 st3 players with frenzy, I see that as a liabilty as well as sometimes useful. Also not having the choice about following up can lead them places they don't want. Ag2 also means they are less mobile. Whereas blitzers with ag3 and the higher av makes them more attractive to me should I be playing dwarfs.

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 3:06 pm

With the list above, we'll again end up with a lot of Big guys, and once that's started in a league, soon everybody will again have Big guys

I think they should both be restricted to a few teams only, and cost positional players!

R

Post by **Thadrin** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 3:14 pm

Skummy wrote: Amazons: (0-4 Blitzers or 0-2 and a Treeman)
Chaos: (0-4 Chaos Warriors or 0-2 and a Minotaur, Ogre or Troll)
Chaos Dwarf: (0-6 Chaos Dwarf Blockers or 0-4 and a Troll or Minotaur)
Dark Elves: (0-4 Blitzers or 0-2 and a Minotaur)
Dwarf: (0-4 Blitzers or 0-2 and a Troll)
Goblin: (Stays the same)
Halfling: (Stays the same)
High Elves: (0-4 blitzers or 0-2 and a Treeman)
Human: (0-4 Blitzers or 0-2 and an Ogre)
Lizardmen: (0-6 Saurus or 0-4 and a Kroxigor)
Norse: (0-4 Blitzers or 0-2 and an Ogre or Troll)
Orc: (0-4 Blitzers or 0-2 and an Ogre or Troll)
Skaven: (0-4 Storm Vermin or 0-2 and a Rat Ogre)
Undead: (0-4 Wights and 1 Mummy or 0-2 Wights and 2 Mummies)
Wood Elves: (0-4 Catchers or 0-2 and a Treeman. I'm afraid that 4 Wardancers on one team would break the game.)

GOOD GOD NO!
You've totally missed the point. I don't want every damned team to be able to have big guys. I want minimal numbers of big guys. I want them much more limited as to which teams can take them, to cure the "every team has a big guy" arms race.
The extra stuff for the High Elves and Dark Elves? Ah, let 'em have it anyway. They don't bother me.

The thing about losing two (position) was meant to be balanced by the fact that the BGs would be allowed to use rerolls on blocks. Look at it this way - instead of two st4 blocks (probably a 2 dicer) with a reroll you're getting one St5 block (probably STILL a 2 dicer) with a reroll.

I agree that Mutations give Chaos all the variations they need.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 3:17 pm

Thadrin: I'm not a fan of the BG arms race, either. Take another look at the above options and let me know which BG's exactly are worth giving up 2 positional players? The Undead and the Humans are the only ones I'd even think about.

Post by **Thadrin** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 3:40 pm

The thing is, your list gives all 15 official races the oppurtunity to have a big guy. I want Big guys only to EVER appear on teams where fluff says they should be. TBH you can lose the troll from the orc team and I'd be happy.
Ogres and minos on chaos. Trolls and trees on Gobboes and halflings. Krox on Lizards. Rat ogre on Skaven (not sure about that last one either TBH...but hes in the game and trying to do away with ROs entirely won't happen...). THAT'S IT.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 3:46 pm

The thing is, your list gives all 15 official races the oppurtunity to have a big guy. I want Big guys only to EVER appear on teams where fluff says they should be.

I'm more interested in game balance than Warhammer fluff. I'd love to see every team have access to one, but have them be marginal players that are rarities on the pitch.

Post by **Dave** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 4:41 pm

eehhhm

The game isn't balanced and shouldn't be.

The big guys are there for fluff and fun, but not all teams neet to be fun in the same way.

You could also add gobbo's or 'flings to each team to give everyone a chance at a one turner. Give each team acces to a wardancer because he is the best. Make physical abillities for each race, much fairer.

I like Thadrin's list, perhaps without the mino for the Norse (However fluff like it may be)

This limits big guys and gives the other teams the challange of 'playing around' these silly / stupid / slow behemots

Part of the fun is that each team IS different. That means different everywhere. (Not each team has Secret Weapons, so why BG's)

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 4:56 pm

Dave: You make some good points, but a 2 point strength differential is a really big difference. I recommend that every 3 strength team take Dauntless as their first trait just to cope with the problems that are presented by big guys, star players and high strength ballcarriers like the Bull Centar. I'd much rather make Big Guys something that a coach has to think about adding to his team automatically instead of picking up becasue he's got the roster slot open.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 5:05 pm

I can cope with 1 st5 player no problem its when there is a st5 player and 4 st4 players as well and i only have st 3 thats the problem.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 5:08 pm

You must really hate lizardmen.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 5:14 pm

Not really the rest of the team is st2, its orcs and chaos that are hard to deal with unless i have a big guy of my own.

Post by **Dave** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 10:50 pm

Yes, but if only a fey teams have acces to that xtra ts5 player the problem is much smaller and it becomes less of a race who's BG has Block first

Talk Fantasy Football

Ogres, Dwarfs, Secret Weapons

Are the new secret weapon rules OK to replace BG in Dwarf teams?