Here you go fellow Blood bowlers,New rumor on our set!

[VoodooMike]

By similar logic, i.e. an official licensee does something, NAF would have automatically accepted the Khorne roster. They haven't. Obviously that was an e-version but if FF were to make sweeping changes, as you suggest, to some form of 'tabletop' version why would that be anymore acceptable than an e-version that use the current official rules?

Its not simply about changes made by any "official licensee" in any format. Had GW issued an altered CRP document with the Khorne roster on it I'm willing to bet the NAF would absolutely have accepted the roster without reservation... but the CRP document that GW carries does not list them and thus the argument is that they are not an official part of the game, only something put out by Cyanide for their computer game.

The NAF is presently about the physical board game, not the PC game. Given that GW has stopped producing BB and is in zero danger of going back and starting up again, if they do license someone else to produce "Blood Bowl" the board game, then it'd be hard to argue that it isn't the official game on which the NAF is based. It would be a board game, called "Blood Bowl", with the GW logo on it. While the NAF would not be FORCED to accept it, they'd be insane not to, and they'd certainly have to decide to establish themselves as the absolute authority related to the no-longer supported game they chose to remain with... something they've shown no interest in doing.

As stated already... Fantasy Flight has taken quite a dip into related GW IP in the past few years... a BB team manager game and they made the official replacement for the Warhammer Fantasy RPG, using custom dice in both cases. If a new BB is going to show up, it'll almost certainly be from FF, and so far they've shown a habit of creating a totally new dice system for their versions of things. It would also explain why GW has pulled permission from the NAF to produce block dice - a move which nobody seems able to explain. Just idle speculation, of course

[Lunchab1es]

...Since any official change in BB will almost certainly be adopted by the NAF for its tournaments...

By similar logic, i.e. an official licensee does something, NAF would have automatically accepted the Khorne roster. They haven't. Obviously that was an e-version but if FF were to make sweeping changes, as you suggest, to some form of 'tabletop' version why would that be anymore acceptable than an e-version that use the current official rules?

Because the e-version is not CRP official. Khorne is not a GW team. It's essentially a Focus/Cyanide house rules team.

What we are discussing if the official table top game of blood bowl is updated/modified or what have you.

If Blood Bowl was to be actively sold/marketed by FF, GW or anyone else really they have to have something to sell. The most conservative approach is new models, which is the most profitable aspect of the industry. So options would be to A) out-compete the independent companies (which as I understand it is already an over-saturated market) B) buy out the competition (or their employees) or C) seek aggressive legal action which eliminates the competition.

Other than that, as VM suggested the core product would have to altered in such a way that consumers feel the need to buy the product, rather than just download the new rules PDF from their favorite filesharing network. If the changes are limited to rules and cheap "fiddly bits" they might package it in with some new models so they can increase profit margin while maintaining a reasonable price point.

Ideally (business wise), it would be handled in such a way that the core fanbase isn't alienated entirely, but it can't be so subtle that the existing community shrugs and goes about gaming without buying it or that it fails to generate interest in new customers. That's a tough line to walk.

Also think about who is making the design decisions and why. It doesn't excite stockholders or board members when your pitch is "We made minimal changes to the game, so as to appease aging gamer Johnny who has all 24 teams, some of which more than once by different manufacturers" so much as "We've made some new and exciting changes that make our game more accessible, allowing us to expand our market so Timmy and all of his friends can buy our core package and then collect the rest of the miniatures/fiddly bits."

You see this all the time in the video game industry - if you don't make enough changes, your product becomes stale and the market is saturated (Guitar Hero and its sequels). If you stay true enough to the brand (so that there's no point in differentiating into a second brand) but make enough changes, people will buy the new version (see franchises like Halo, Call of Duty, Elder Scrolls). Check out the forums for these companies -every new release has "veterans" in uproar on forums, people quitting because they feel "abandoned by changes/game is n00bified/dumbed down" yet each version sells more copies and continues to expand the player base.

Sorry, I know I'm rambling. I'm exhausted and I don't know if my points actually got across. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if someone is going to invest to capital to produce bloodbowl, there are absolutely going to be changes because as it exists in its current state it would be extremely difficult to generate enough profit to offset said investment. BB wasn't profitable enough for GW to give it the attention it needed, and now by ignoring it they have given up their monopoly on the only profitable aspect of the TT version (miniature sales), pissing off existing customers in the process. In doing so they not only they've allowed competition to establish itself within that market, but also to ingratiate themselves with the community. That's a lot to compete against unless you've got something new to offer.

Rambling again. Stopping now for real.

edit: VM beat me to some of my points, sorry for repetition and rambling.

[Rewslaun]

Since GW is no longer making new blood bowl minis is it not possible that FFG will be allowed to create their own? Doesn't seem like a good business plan to buy the rights to a miniatures game and not be able to sell miniatures.

[VoodooMike]

Since GW is no longer making new blood bowl minis is it not possible that FFG will be allowed to create their own? Doesn't seem like a good business plan to buy the rights to a miniatures game and not be able to sell miniatures.

Fantasy Flight has never really been a minis company - they're a boxed games company whose bread and butter is selling whole games and boxed expansions to those games. I don't see them having a change of heart and diving into the minis market. There's a bit of hearsay floating around from someone who says they had a conversation with a FF rep who told them that the only real restriction GW put on the use of the IP they licensed to FF is that FF not start producing minis that could in any way conflict with or compete with GW's own. Now, as I say, that's second hand (or third, or fourth) info... and as you say, GW has stopped making BB minis, so I'm not sure these would qualify anyway, etc. BB as a minis-selling game worked out sufficiently badly for GW that they stopped bothering with it, so I'm not sure anyone would want to buy the IP for the minis aspect.

With their Team Manager game, the original game was a box set that covered 6 teams and all associated teams and cards, dice etc. They put out a Sudden Death expansion with 3 more teams (and associated cards) and new optional rules. No reason they couldn't take the same route with an actual BB game... and if they incorporate a card element to teams (and they seem to like using cards these days as well as custom dice) you'd pretty much have to buy a team's associated box set to be able to play them, even if you had all the minis you ever needed.

[daloonieshaman]

VM
interesting angle
(following in theory)
would you figure (as they snipped NAF) that they use cardboard cutouts and have a deck or more of cards to randomize dice rolling of say blocks
example
I am gonna hit your dude
determine the number of "blocking dice" as normal
on the card have the results of 1 die, 2 die, 3 die
have a upper number for a d6 roll, armor and injury rolls (giving cards a retail value)
I don't know just pissing in the wind

[VoodooMike]

would you figure (as they snipped NAF) that they use cardboard cutouts and have a deck or more of cards to randomize dice rolling of say blocks

Fantasy Flight has examples of doing things in a myriad of different ways, so its really anyone's guess. They use cardboard punch-outs with plastic bases in WHFRPG, but they use plastic minis in Talisman. Unless there's a good reason to use numbered dice, they've been using symbol-based dice in most things... their most recent systems have involved outcomes dealt with using a dice pool of different types of dice, some representing positive, some negative, outcomes.

I do remember thinking, when I was learning the WHFRPG rules "this might make a good system for a BB-like board game", and lo and behold, someone mentions on the forums that rumour has it FF may take over doing the BB board game. It already involves comparing the two party's relevant statistic to determine the number of challenge dice in a similar fashion to determining the number of block dice BB already does. The different types of dice, and the different types of symbols, allow for a more granular adjustment of probability and allow you to determine multiple things with a single roll. It's not uncommon to be rolling 8 dice at once, though.

FF covers a lot of ground, so I'm not sure anyone can predict specifically what they'd do with the game if they put out a new set... other than the fact that it'd be sufficiently different as to require we all buy a new box from them.

[jdmofo]

When the rumour mill was talking of a new GW box set, I was thinking it'd be a limited run, no rule changes, nice new board and 2 plastic teams (four was never gonna happen IMO). We all (or most) would have bought it as the limited nature of the set would have made it an impulse buy and having a printed CRP would've been cool.

Now the rumours are saying FF (or similar) may take on the license, I can only see a set with fairly major changes. As the fanbase (us) know that this new BB would be available for quite some time, that panic-buy mentality would not be there. They would know this. The very first thing that they would discuss when they sit down for their first meeting having aquired the rights would be "How can we make people who already play NEED this set". They have to make it a must buy for us. Rules changes alone would not achieve that as we can just find them online.

The most obvious way to do that is to change the dimensions of the board. Immediately you make everyone's current pitch obsolete, and stick two fingers up to FF Fields and anyone else carrying stock of existing FF pitches while you're at it! A pitch is a fairly pricey thing to buy third party even once FF Fields or similar adjust, players might as well just pick up the new box set instead.

And like others have said, even if the NAF were not enamoured with the new version, they would have the choice of accepting and adopting it or becoming obsolete themselves.

[Indigo]

All of your words

Nonsense.

[JT-Y]

This is all just wishlisting. Non of this has any basis in fact.

Just saying before anyone makes happy pants based on a stream of consciousness from just one person.

Edit to add; I don't entirely mean VDM. The original suggestion that the box had been binned in favour of a new game and the IP being for sale came from an unknown source.

[RogueThirteen]

And like others have said, even if the NAF were not enamoured with the new version, they would have the choice of accepting and adopting it or becoming obsolete themselves.

Of course, FFG has an extensive in-house Organized Play branch. The NAF would almost certainly be seen as a separate, and unnecessary institution (despite that the NAF offers better services than FFG's OP probably would: coach ID tracking, records, rankings, etc.). IF BB tourneys were run like, say, X-Wing tourneys, than anything officially ran would have to be held by a retailer who ordered an Organized Play Kit from FFG (be it a League Night Kit or Regional tournament). FFG would handle National and World tournaments themselves.

I couldn't see FFG deferring to the NAF for all of this (they make money--I assume, though probably not much--from the tournament and league kits purchased by retailers, after all). So I think you'd see two completely different gaming scenes: those through FFG OP and those through the NAF (assuming the NAF did embrace the new edition). I assume it'd be the same kind of relationship that exists between Cyanide and the NAF: aka, none at all.

Of course, all of this assumes that FFG could/would acquire Blood Bowl, and to be perfectly frank I really could not see FFG picking up the game (I think they're too smart for that--afterall we are talking about a company that is making piles and piles of cash with the X-Wing miniature game that they literally cannot keep in stock worldwide). They would just seem to have so little to gain from BB (as would any company that had to purchase the rights and already had existing successful lines of miniature games). If we ever see BB again, it will almost certainly be some watered down "limited edition nostalgia closed-box release," akin to Space Hulk and DreadFleet, but I think that would be at least another five or ten years off (assuming GW lasts that long).

[VoodooMike]

The most obvious way to do that is to change the dimensions of the board. Immediately you make everyone's current pitch obsolete, and stick two fingers up to FF Fields and anyone else carrying stock of existing FF pitches while you're at it! A pitch is a fairly pricey thing to buy third party even once FF Fields or similar adjust, players might as well just pick up the new box set instead.

While it'd certainly be one possible route to go, it's easy enough to require purchase without changing the board by simply changing the dice and adding in some sort of card usage. While 3rd party companies would eventually produce compatible dice, anything that requires a specific deck of cards is unlikely to be handled by 3rd party suppliers... though it depends on how they're used, I guess.

This is all just wishlisting. Non of this has any basis in fact.

It's not wishlisting at all - it's a discussion of the logic involved IF a given rumour happens to be true. If rumours and their discussion bother you, you should probably avoid threads with "rumor" in the thread title.

Of course, FFG has an extensive in-house Organized Play branch. The NAF would almost certainly be seen as a separate, and unnecessary institution (despite that the NAF offers better services than FFG's OP probably would: coach ID tracking, records, rankings, etc.). IF BB tourneys were run like, say, X-Wing tourneys, than anything officially ran would have to be held by a retailer who ordered an Organized Play Kit from FFG (be it a League Night Kit or Regional tournament). FFG would handle National and World tournaments themselves.

I had totally missed their Organized Play stuff before you mentioned it in this posting. Now that I've read up on it I have pretty much the same opinion you do: OP covers regional qualification tournaments, and a world championship event for each of FF's games, and provides the materials for local play events in the form of inexpensive game night packages (around $20). As you say, they don't track stats at all, which is something the NAF does do and which has made it a unifying organization.

What OP seriously lacks, it seems, is regional organizations related to gameplay - for everything shy of the regional tournaments, which are on a specific FF-designated schedule, it's just Game Night kits that retailers are supposed to do whatever they want with. OP could probably use something akin to what was discussed on Ausbowl: region specific organizations that promote play, beyond the expectation that individual retailers will actually care enough to do so, and which go out of their way to organize and execute regional play events on a regular basis.

I can't really imagine the NAF just going away, nor can I imagine it choosing not to adopt whatever comes next, if anything. It would simply find its stride and keep on going, I suspect!

[JT-Y]

It's not wishlisting at all - it's a discussion of the logic involved IF a given rumour happens to be true. If rumours and their discussion bother you, you should probably avoid threads with "rumor" in the thread title.

Oh you poor confused lamb, you're doing that thing again where you tell others what they should and shouldn't be doing as if it is your place to be telling them.
If my responses to your posting bothers you then you shouldn't read it should you , perhaps you should add me to your 'foes' list.
But if you do feel compelled to read it and it does bother you, then you shouldn't respond, it just makes a nasty troll like me all the more eager to pick on poor ickle VoodooMike.

Anyway, back on topic and for anyone still interested...

Considering I no longer have any contact with the studio I honestly can't say I'm in a very strong position to comment on what will or won't happen. But I feel it highly unlikely that BB will be sold to FFG as that is not how the company operates, and I suspect Cyanide's new edition is dictated by the studio's own plans for the game, signaled very strongly by other actions in the past 6 months.
I also find it unlikely that a new Inquisitor based 28mm scale skirmish game is to be released any time soon, much as I'd like to see such a thing, as I've said before. I do know where that particular rumour originated from and it did make me smile.

I think we know what's to come, and that we should in some ways be glad of it, because GW's hands on involvement isn't something we want with their present attitude towards external testing or community input, and if we find ourselves playing an older edition of a game, then we benefit because their C&D's have little to no bearing when hobbyists are playing an historical product of theirs, but get hounded for being enthusiastic online about the current version.

[Heff]

It's not wishlisting at all - it's a discussion of the logic involved IF a given rumour happens to be true. If rumours and their discussion bother you, you should probably avoid threads with "rumor" in the thread title.

Oh you poor confused lamb, you're doing that thing again where you tell others what they should and shouldn't be doing as if it is your place to be telling them.
If my responses to your posting bothers you then you shouldn't read it should you , perhaps you should add me to your 'foes' list.
But if you do feel compelled to read it and it does bother you, then you shouldn't respond, it just makes a nasty troll like me all the more eager to pick on poor ickle VoodooMike.

But that's what makes him so very lovable

[VoodooMike]

Oh you poor confused lamb, you're doing that thing again where you tell others what they should and shouldn't be doing as if it is your place to be telling them.
If my responses to your posting bothers you then you shouldn't read it should you , perhaps you should add me to your 'foes' list.
But if you do feel compelled to read it and it does bother you, then you shouldn't respond, it just makes a nasty troll like me all the more eager to pick on poor ickle VoodooMike.

I would never "tell you what to do" - I am simply pointing out, pursuant to your own claims of failing health and the effects that arguments have on it, how you might choose to avoid such aggravation. If you want to seek out things that bother you then that's totally fine with me too, but my conscience requires me to try to help you find the kind of peace you continually claim you're seeking, no matter how often your mouth proves otherwise

But I feel it highly unlikely that BB will be sold to FFG as that is not how the company operates, and I suspect Cyanide's new edition is dictated by the studio's own plans for the game, signaled very strongly by other actions in the past 6 months.

Specialist Games is gone, they're ridding themselves of related supplies... You think this is part of some future plans for Blood Bowl that don't involve doing nothing but licensing it out on occasion? I find it pretty hard to imagine that GW is somehow revealing their plans for Blood Bowl by way of Cyanide's games. It'd be like US Army using Gomer Pyle as a recruitment tool.

Fantasy Flight has been licensing an increasing number of GW IPs, and while some of the things they've made have been peripheral products (ie, BB Team Manager) some have been primary replacements (Talisman, WHFRPG). If (and obviously its a pretty big "if") we see more official Blood Bowl production in terms of the tabletop game, it seems pretty reasonable to assume it'd be in the form of a Fantasy Flight product.

[Daht]

A little part of me hopes they (if they are FFG, and they do have the rights, and they are making a new version) change a lot JUST to see some good message board meltdowns and entertaining internet battles over every little thing.