GW's Triple B League --- TBB WE NEED YOUR VOTES!!!

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 12:25 pm

I'd rather see some of the KO table toned down a little, as well as Pitch Invasion, I'd change Riot to D3 turns, Blitz to just one or maybe D3 players to move.

Most importantly though I think Get the Ref is the most broken result as it completely overides IGMEOY.

In league play the strategy is missing anyway as most teams start on 9FF and fluctuate around this point. Any small FF differences are likely due to a combination of lucky rolls and some coaching skill.

more wins in theory means higher FF so if anything the worse coach is handicapped by this system.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 12:34 pm

the kick off table as it is gives the lower teams a chance against the bigger teams with a nice result, it happens its a mechanic that helps towards what neo was going on about levelling the teams out at bigger tr

sure it won't happen often but lower teams aren't meant to win all the time

as for get the ref i still don't foul when i do it, you are still setting the eye on you so your opponent can foul back every turn with just the 6+ to get sent off, so for teams that like to foul if their opponent gets the ref and fouls every turn you are still playing into their hands

my opponent getting blitz has often worked to my advantage as well, moving too many players up and leaving me space to run through to the backfield. I have rolled blitz a number of times and only moved a couple of players cause it would mess up my defence

the only thing that gives one team a clear advatanage is pitch invasion and even if you do roll 6 players its no guarentee that you won't just stunn 6 players

i repeat again the kick off table is fine as it is

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 12:43 pm

I've seen that happen on a pitch invasion too, big roll, no cas.

My real problem is with Get the Ref but I guess that's theoretical at the mo' as there's not enough Dirty Players in our league to make a real difference.

I can still see it being a major advantage, especially to a team that already has a player advantage on pitch and so can spare players to make the foul where the other team can't.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 2:13 pm

The only changes I think are sensible:

reducing riot to D3 turns (who wants to play 1/2 a game?)
Toning down Get the Ref
1. Make it work only for the current drive. Still very nasty, but at least gives you some chance to get rid of it.
2. Make it a modification to the argue the call roll - so you aren't sent off on a 2+ (or 4+). Still some chance of getting sent off helps a lot.

In general someone needs to go through all the kick off & handicap results to make them fit better with IGMEOY - e.g. being able to foul any number of times in a turn is pointless.

Geggster · Post by **Geggster** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 4:30 pm

Grumbledook wrote: i repeat again the kick off table is fine as it is

Riot needs changing. A five or six turn riot on the opening kick off of any game never fails to totally

me off.

I played the winner of the recent Chaos Cup at The Bloodbowl (and won

) but my half time lead was cemented with a six turn riot. He had come from Spain for that tourney and the second half was a waste of time.

Conversely at the Warhammer Players Society CLub Challenge in May, I had fifteen turns of riot in games two and three. FIFTEEN turns.

.I practically spent the whole afternoon as a spectator. Brilliant.

Okay, Pitch Invasion rewards fan factor selection but at most tourneys the general FF is low so the winner is practically a coin toss. Especially annoying when three or four leave the pitch. Imagine using Woodies against Orcs. Lose toss, kick the ball. First turn, PI. Six affected. Two KO'd and two injured. Most sensible coaches would spend the half guarding the ball, scoring in turn eight. By that time, how many Elves are on the pitch still? How many might come up for the second half? What could the Woodie coach have done about it? Imagine it was you. Imagine it was in a tourney.

Yes, Riot and PI help with the fluff but lets have it D3 for both.

Got to say that I'm happy with blitz as it is, even though it too can seriously effect games (and I should know having being blitzed four times in one game and losing 8-1

)

NightDragon · Post by **NightDragon** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 4:58 pm

It could be changed just for tourneys?

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 5:06 pm

well tournament organisers can easily enough put that in the rules pack

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:09 pm

I usually have to let the stuff that Dark Lord says roll around in my head to make sure I see all the angles. This is one of those occassions.

Getting ready to start the new season of the MBBL2 in a couple months. That league uses basically the LRB rules, but we don't have aging as the coaches really didn't like it ... (at least the vocal ones didn't).

I've decided to add this rule to the MBBL2 format:

If your cash roll at the end of a game is negative, this amount is deducted from your treasury. This may cause your treasury to go negative. If it does, the negative amount is recorded to your roster as a team debt (ie negative cash). Negative treasuries will be treated as if they are positive treasuries for Team Rating points.

So if I as a team coach completely ignore trying to manage my Team Rating, my cash will just keep becoming more and more negative which will mean I'll have no ability to replace players at all on my squad. Its also means my TR will continue to climb to represent the pressure being placed on my team to perform from the sponsers covering the debt the team has incurred.

Now a team could spiral into a hole that they could not recover from with this rule, but only if they don't take steps to correct the trend as a good team manager. This avoids any forced loss of rerolls or forced retirement of players like Dark Lord disliked. It also avoids a team having a bad gate ... rolling a 1 for cash and ending up with -30k in winnings when they have 20k in the treasury and losing a player or reroll because of it. If the team has a good game next time and gets 10+k in winnings they'll be back in the black.

I think this makes the negative cash rule work a lot better and open up the rule to more coach choice than forced decisions.

Grumble ... you and I were in lock step on a negative winnings modifier ... I'm curious what you think of this as a change to that rule.

I gave this its own thread to discuss:
viewtopic.php?p=126286#126286

Galak

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:17 pm

indeed its an interesting twist on it

though if a team doesn't do anything about it and leaves it a bit too late there might get to a point where the negative amount raises their tr so its just going to be so bad they can't do anything to stop it bar getting rid of practically the whole team

though that would have been their own fault anyway

in those respects it seems rather harsh compared to the BBB method in the rate it can take affect, though i do like it

be interesting to hear what Dark Lord has to say about it, i am sure some people will say its still something to force you to get rid of something but i don't see how you can stop teams getting overly powerful without doing that ;]

the one problem i can see with it though is that teams who don't care and ignore it and just play other high rated teams, playing other high rated teams as well means they can ignore any handicaps the negative cash tr infaltion would have bought so they can keep on playing and ignore it.

though that could be resolved extending the winngins table much further along than the tr 300+ or whatever its on atm then when they do start suffering from injurys they will be a long way gone to replacing anyone

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:55 pm

Grumbledook wrote:the one problem i can see with it though is that teams who don't care and ignore it and just play other high rated teams, playing other high rated teams as well means they can ignore any handicaps the negative cash tr infaltion would have bought so they can keep on playing and ignore it.

Well uber-team vs. uber-team isn't really a problem, is it? And I'm not sure how long they could just keep ignoring it playing other high powered teams. No number of skills is going to stop that Block+Tackle+Piling On ogre from flattening your prize catcher. If you are 80K in debt, how do you replace him? One bad game would cure any smarty pants who think they could just keep ignoring it.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:04 pm

does that mean you like it then ;]

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:12 pm

Grumbledook wrote:does that mean you like it then ;]

Dark Lord's answer was yes on the other thread I posted the link to. Sorry wanted to post it here and on a new thread to direct traffic for the new discussion.

ie Grumble ... comment over on the other thread ...

Galak

Melifaxis · Post by **Melifaxis** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:18 pm

ianwilliams wrote:
Melifaxis wrote:I think Pitch Invasion should be d3 players. I'd rather wins/losses be more based on coaching skills than one kickoff result.
Did you invest in FF? If not then the KO table will punish you in the long run.

The KO makes one of the nice strategic decisions in the game (particularly for tournaments) - FF or players.

Yeah, I started with 9 FF, as I do on most teams, but I just think it is a bit too unbalancing.

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:46 pm

I agree. FF 9 is almost a necessity and I have seen teams go from 9 to 6 and be 3-0. (nat 1 rule sucks!!!!!!!!!) and then suffer the wrath of the K.O. table.

IMO though, the worst part of the KO table is that teh most common result is weather change, and the adverse weather results are so hard to get you never get anything but Nice Perfect Blood Bowl Weather. Weather is a big part of sports in general and should be in Blood Bowl.

This is such a simple thing to fix, it's really frustrating that they seem to be ignoring it.

Melifaxis · Post by **Melifaxis** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:53 pm

We'll probably be making houserule weather, handicap, and kickoff tables to try out for a season after our playoffs are over.

We had one poor sap suffer 2 pitch invasions in the same game. He lost 9 players. 3 Niggles and 2 Deaths!

Ruined his team