Vampires

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 12:16 am

Anthony_TBBF wrote:I think that anyone who has actually talked to them about Blood Bowl will find that they are indeed very dedicated and interested in making Blood Bowl the best it can be. You may not agree with how they do things, fair enough. But I do hope that you spend some time with them and have a chat if you ever get the opportunity to talk to them in person at a con or whatever.

I have talked to them both. They care about the game, yes, but know nothing about how it's played.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 12:17 am

Pariah, 4th ed did work. In my league, it worked perfectly. Better in fact than 3rd ed.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 12:19 am

Well the point, Zombie, is that your league was the minority. More leagues didn't like 4th edition than did.

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 12:48 am

Ok, I really don't want to get into any heavy discussion over this, but I have a few points to address.

Pariah: Like it or not, GW is a vast company that exists to make money for it's shareholders. GW pricing and distribution are whole seperate issues that can't be laid at the feet or JJ or Andy, attacks on whom is what I'm addressing here. (And I don't think you can hold JJ personally responsible for what happens to every local league in Iowa either! Crocked ruleset. Mistake. Admitted. Fixed. I know it doesn't help you any, but what the hell else can they do?)

Criticism of the way some issues were/are handled by JJ or Andy are perfectly acceptable IMO (whether valid or not, discussion about them is fine), as long as it's kept civil. If it comes in the form of what amounts to personal attacks on individuals, then it certainly is not.

As for 'being out of touch', that's what the BBRC is for, and the reasons rules are published as 'experimental'. While not being perfect (this isn't a perfect world!) on the whole the system works. There's a lot of examples to list (Khemri, Ogres etc) but the fact that they are aware of COFAB and they'll probably use it in some form shows that we as a community have a voice and that voice is being heard.

We've probably got more input than any other GW game.
We wanted all the rules in one place. We've got them. Free. (And what's widely accepted as the strongest ruleset to date).
We wanted 2e style BB specific minis, not WHFB weaponless figs. We're getting them. ( New rules to sell figs? JJ said that the bases are pretty much covered in terms of team playing style variations, so they're going to concentrate on replacing the 3e figs with more football styled BB specific figs).
We wanted Block dice available through MO. It's happening, along with packs of metal balls and possibly bulk packs of pitches for leagues/gaming clubs/tourney organisers.
We moaned that Khemri are a nightmare to assemble. They're looking at releasing them in a different format.

Ah what the hell, you ain't gonna please all of the people all of the time, we'll all continue to have our pet issues (whether rules related or marketing policy etc), just don't go throwing stones at individuals from a position of ignorance.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 12:57 am

Well said, DW!!

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 1:31 am

All that doesn't change the fact that JJ and Andy know nothing about the game itself, and because of that shouldn't be left with any power regarding the rules.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 2:09 am

They are the people who the company put in charge of the rules for BB, so it seems silly to suggest that they shouldn't have that power. They have the power and that's not going to change, so deal with it. Even if GW did change their staff in regards to who's responsible for BB and it's rules, no guarantee that these people would do any better of a job (maybe even worse). Providing feedback to Fanatic and the BBRC on what rules need changing, etc, is a more constructive approach than saying that JJ and AH should be removed from having any power over rule changes in BB. And, before you say it, yes you are entitled to your opinion, but I don't think whining about JJ and Andy is going to do anything about the quality of any new rules.

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 2:24 am

Well, BB is a work of genius, so I don't think it makes sense to knock the guys who made it that way.

As far as I know, the hobby has more influence over BB and its future than is the case with any other GW game. That is a precious thing - all power to the BBRC and the NAF!

Hobgoblins rock - for example they scored two thirds of my TDs at the BB, notwithstanding Hthark's attempts to hog the ball! So I have no doubt that Thralls, given that they have the same stats, will rock too.

I have played a few experimental games with the Vampires as published in the BB mag. It's a competitive side - my main complaint is that the Vampire Lord is very powerful - a quasi-Star Player - and this makes the side something of a one trick pony. There's also a strong incentive to take a starting side with no rookie Vampires (you can start, for example, with 12 Hobgoblins, a Vampire Lord, 9FF and 4RR - an evil side). If the rookie vampires can be sorted out, such that you start with some in the roster, then the side becomes more interesting. And if OFAB becomes an on-pitch negative trait, then maybe the Vampire Lord should have it as well.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 4:34 am

Well DW, like I said, it's from my point of view. Maybe if I lived in GW's back yard and had access to BB merchandise I might feel even slightly different but that's not true.

As for your shareholders money making bla bla bla statement. It still doesn't explain why somebody should have to pay nearly 150 bucks just to run an Ogre team. Or why the goblin team costs fifty bucks!

As for getting what we asked for...yeah we got a rulebook...don't get me started on that! I'm glad they did but the way they went about it was really stupid.

Anything else? I haven't seen it yet. Yeah we are gonna get 2nd ed style minis...with new rules. JJ can say what he wanst and tell you all kinds of BS but bottom line is we are getting a new stupid elf team so they can sell the new minis. Balance? Saturation? JJ says we don't need another Elf team? Well who is in charge then? Cuz we're getting one.

Have they released any minis yet without a new broken team?

You can hail JJ for his past achievments all you want but form my point of view he made a broken 3rd edition, 4th edition, and continues to make broken teams to this day. I'd like to know what is wrong with saying he's lost touch. What rule or rules set has JJ made lately that worked? The only things I've seen that work are things they've stolen off the net.

And oh yeah, if you can give me even one logical reason why we have to get rid of the Undead team for the Khemri, Necros and vamps but we can have another Elf team, then I might defend their insanity.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 4:54 am

I'd say that JJ was great until about a year after death zone came out. After that, he totally stopped making sense.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 5:10 am

Its said that sometimes Heroin addicts get to the point of not enjoying the high even for a lil bit. Im wondering how bad it is getting for Pariah, he does not seem to like pure bloodbowl, just the impure/contaminated/altered versions?

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 5:53 am

Yeah, whatever. I don't know what you mean. Do you?

I only like the "unpure contaminated" Blood Blowl?

What?
I play in the REBBL Challenge League and find it quite fun.
I play in the MBBL out of comittment and don't find it fun. So you have have no idea what you are talking about. Plus the grammar in your post is so pathetic I barely understand what you mean.
You must attend the the Jervis Johnson School of communication.

How about this? How about instead of nonsensical replies you attempt to make a point. Like explain the sense in any of the Fanatic moves lately. Tell me why we need another Elf but one less Undead team. Tell me why Sigurd's rule had a name change? Tell me why an Ogre team costs 90 and doesn't even give you enough players to play? Tell me why every time somebody does complain or try to start a thread about their complaints they are told they are ingrates?

Why is it that nobody is allowed to express an opinion that is negative?

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 8:27 am

Man, I hate quoting myself, but again:

Deathwing wrote:Criticism of the way some issues were/are handled by JJ or Andy are perfectly acceptable IMO (whether valid or not, discussion about them is fine), as long as it's kept civil. If it comes in the form of what amounts to personal attacks on individuals, then it certainly is not.

Opinions are fine, it's the manner in which westley chose to express his that I've got issues with.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 8:37 am

Sorry, DW, I get defensive cuz sometimes it feels no matter how civil I keep it somebody has a problem with it being said.

Somebody, like Newboy, has to make some stupid remark that implies anyone who has a bad taste in his mouth is obviously crazy, a pessimist, or now a drug addict.

We couldn't possibly be human beings with opinions. We disagree with the intellect of Acerak, Milo or Sean Newboy so we must be mentally defective in some capaicity.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 1:00 pm

I will make the point clearer.

When was the last time u made a comment that wasnt negative on this forum? How often is it compared to the positive ones? Your so busy trying to complain about anything and everything (or so it seems) in bb, it seems to me u dont enjoy bb that much. Some of the rules/decisions may not be as u like, thats true of probably all of us, but even Zombie* (who is one of the more critical) seems to make positive comments more often than u do.

we are getting a new stupid elf team

Yes thats quite civil

.

Do i think JJ has lost a step (or 3) lately yes. However i still enjoy bb and i try to spend more time on this forum admiring others paint work and giving basic game play advice than griping about the fact that i think fouls and secret weapons should go under the same ruleset.

* No Disrespect intended, the man knows the rules, and has a strong tactical sense.

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Vampires

BB is a work of genius, and Thralls rock...