A new change to the rotters?

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 8:55 pm

Galak, I have to pop in here and say it.

You EXP system works. It's effective and clean.

It's just not fun and I have a feeling that if it is made official the same complaints will be heard about it that are being heard about the ageing system.

We need a system that is fun and doesn't make people dread rolling the dice. If you make people not want to roll the dice you make them not like the rule.

ZanzerTem · Post by **ZanzerTem** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 9:00 pm

Yep. I was excited when my Wardance got +1AG on his skill roll, but got -1ST on his aging. It was his 2nd skill roll, BTW.

Getting more then 1 or 2 skills sucks in this game.

ZanzerTem · Post by **ZanzerTem** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 9:04 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:At 25 games those killer mummies will probably have started to miss matches ... which means that the skills they have extra like Block and Tackle that are making them so nasty would start to leave the team or the team will be playing short a Mummy a game on average.

Galak

When this starts happening Undead coaches start retiring players. The aformentioned Khemri coach retired a Mummy due to a -1 MV result of Aging. It was the mummies 3rd skill roll at the time.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 9:10 pm

We've got a mummy with 82 and no permenant injuries and a Mummy at 56 and no permenant injuries.

ZanzerTem · Post by **ZanzerTem** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 9:16 pm

I'll take a vanilla undead with 2 mummies with Pile On, -vs- any other LRB team, with 1 extra skill on 2 different players, and lets see how many casualties I rack up. I tried this the other day against Orcs no less, and my 2 mummies did 5 knockouts, 1 death, 2 badly hurts, and a lot of stuns, and this is just with my mummies. The rest of the team also dealt out 2 casualties (1 BH, 1 SI) respectively. I won 2-1.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 9:25 pm

Bloodbasher Masher wrote:Yep. I was excited when my Wardancer got +1AG on his skill roll, but got -1ST on his aging. It was his 2nd skill roll,

Would you enjoy the ageing penalty more you had rolled bonehead? Or just peaked?

Bloodbasher Masher wrote:Getting more then 1 or 2 skills sucks in this game.

Would you still think that it sucked if you had even a slim chance of something good happening on the ageing table? Like some extra cash from a lawsuit, or a magic helmet?

Once again for public enjoyment I present my Wear & Tear brainstorm...or brainfart...

I suggest we have all niggling injuries give a cumulative +1 to injury rolls. IMO opinion that's gonna go a long way to help player turn over. But in addition I wrote up this...

Veterans of the rough sport called Blood Bowl can tell you that it's a young man's game. Careers are short and it doesn't matter how your species ages. After a few years most players begin to feel to the effects of the game; even the immortal undead start to fall apart from the abuse. To represent this a player who reaches 31 Star Player Points (and every skill roll afterwards) must make a roll on the Wear & Tear Table.

Wear & Tear Table
Roll 2D6

2. Oh, my aching back! This player’s back and joints are out of whack and missing a lot of cartilage. He is easily injured. Subtract 1 from his Armour value. (If this will take his AV to less than 2 below its starting number then the player gains a Niggling Injury.)
3. Too many lumps on the head! This player has had one too many Knock Outs. He’s been stunned and K.O.’d so much that sometimes he needs a little more direction than the other guys. Player acquires “Bonehead” trait. (If this is rolled a second time the player gains the “Really Stupid” trait. If you get this result a third time then roll again.)
4-5. Peaked! This player has learned all he can learn. Some players are better than others and that’s just life. The player gains this last skill but can’t earn any more Star Player Points and MVP’s are wasted on him. This last skill roll may be considered a “doubles” result. (I.E. the player may choose any skill or a trait from his categories)
6-8. Niggling Injury! The player gains a niggling injury and must miss the next game.
9-10. Inflated Ego! This player demands an appearance fee of 30,000gps at every game where the opponents have a lower Team Rating than your team. (If this result is rolled again then the fee increases by 10,000gps)
11. Post Game Injuries! Once in the locker room the player feels woozy and out of sorts. The next day it’s discovered that he has a concussion and must miss next game. In addition, he may only select normal skills for his roll, no matter what the dice result. (No traits, physical abilities or stat increases!)
12. I’m like fine wine, Baby! That’s right! This player just gets better with age. Choose a result from below.
I. Nuffle cures the sick! Remove one niggling injury!
II. Player inherits a magic helmet. +1 to Armour Value
III. Osmosis! Pick any trait or skill for this roll, even those not normally allowed to you.
(Only Skaven and Chaos player may choose physical traits, however)
IV. Endorsement! The player is sponsored by Bloodweiser, Reeborc or some other big company and adds +1 to the team’s money rolls as long as he lives.

I'm not married to this but the point I'm trying to make is that there is some fun in this table. However ultra-slim the chance, a player might actually improve a little! Also, most of the results are going to be niggling injuries which when combined with the cumualtive effect rule let the player play without loss of strength or skill, but will shorten his life expectency. This is what we should be doing. Nobody wants their players to get worse! Niggling injuries are good because either he plays or not. You don't spend 2 seasons building a killer thrower just to have his AG drop. You may spend 2 seasons building a great thrower only to have him get killed but that's what the game should be about! I did include some bad results but I included results that I thought would would be fun, funny or would help the cumulative injury process.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 9:50 pm

Bloodbasher Masher wrote:Yep. I was excited when my Wardance got +1AG on his skill roll, but got -1ST on his aging. It was his 2nd skill roll, BTW.

Getting more then 1 or 2 skills sucks in this game.

Without gettting into Masher ... EXP isn't linked at all to skill rolls ... get as many as you want it doesn't matter.

Galak

And Pariah ... I like your table ... but I'm just one of the folks who hate having aging linked to skill rolls. I only endorsed the first aging system because something was needed and that was the best thing I'd seen to date ... its not anymore.

ZanzerTem · Post by **ZanzerTem** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 10:31 pm

Good job Pariah. For once there is a table where there is more of a bonus then NOT getting a niggling injury.

@ Galak: I was commenting on how the current aging system makes me dread rolling the dice. It had nothing to do with the EXP system. Honestly, I'm curious to see the EXP system, because I have never seen it in action.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 11:02 pm

ignore

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 11:07 pm

And how exactly is the EXP system not linked to Skill Rolls? Sure it's not directly linked but it's the same concept and like I said...you'll be back wanting to change it again soon because it's just not fun.

I hate to take it to you so sharply Galak but I feel I need to. What fun is your system and how does it improve the game? What is wrong with skill roll ageing? The lineman with 1 or 2 skills aren't the problem. Why should they age? I really don't think realism should be a factor here.

A fun system is the only way this will be widely accepted...and no, outside of PBeM I don't many ppl accepting your EXP system.

Balrog · Post by **Balrog** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 7:29 pm

Unfortunately, Pariah has a point, EXP sucks - but that should be reserved for a different thread.

-Balrog

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:10 pm

Well, let me clarify. I don't think it sucks. I think it works just fine (maybe a little too soon but...) the problem is the same problem as the Ageing system. It's no fun to crap all over your carefully built team and it discourages long term play. Why continue your team that peaked at around a TR of 125 when you can start over and take advantage of the handicap table and all the teams that have -1 to AG?

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:11 pm

personally the challenge of keeping a team good and having to turn players over is fun

its like playing a football management sim for season after season

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:15 pm

But I don't want all of my players to suck after they get a couple skills.

So what is wrong with most of linemen peaking? Why do they need to get -1 ST and 12 niggling injuries? Or why can't my Blitzer that has 4 skills develop Bonehead or Really Stupid instead of losing ST and AG?

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:54 pm

There was a fun rule in 2ed where a player could get "punchdrunk" if he got too many injuries, worked kinda like bonehead (or really stupid, can't remember exactly, could look it up, but too lazy).