GW - what to do????

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 6:36 am

Pariah wrote:What I do think they should do is say, "Jervis, these teams are not what the Blood bowl community wants. They just don't work."

So you're keeping tabs on them after all, if you know that they haven't said that to JJ. But seriously, tell me, why should they tell us that they've said that to JJ? Why? As I'm pretty darn sure they've said that (I keep tabs on everybody in preparation for my global domination) but they're wise enough not to brag about it here in public.

Milo wrote:We are trying to make changes, even if we don't report every step of the process back to TBB.

And why should you? Naturally I and many others like it if you do, but I can't consider it a necessity. No point telling us what exactly are you discussing amongst each other.

And you're welcome about the support. Your actions so far have given me quite a confidence that you're doing a good job. (I reserve the right to alter this opinion after next October

)

Also, on several occasions I have noticed that especially neo and Chet are definitely representatives of my opinions up there, so I can rest fairly secure in the knowledge that they'll probably support something that I would too (excluding few details, but did anyone notice the SW suggestion I made in the summer and how it was almost like the mag version? That was a coincidence).

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 6:59 am

How are they reporting to JJ when they haven't asked for opinions?

Could you please point me to the thread where Milo is asking the community at large what we would like to change? I can't seem to find it.

I'd start one but they seem to get mad whan I do.

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 7:10 am

Alright, you've really hit a nerve with me on this last one.

I used to see many of your comments as valid and enlightening but much of what you have said on this thread has been useless whining.

There have been innumerable threads on this board regarding what players would like to see changed. If you think they aren't being watched, then you are being foolish.

I really tire of hearing your martyr-dom attempts. Nothing is going to be perfect in the process. The guys who work with and are in charge of the rule changes, this isn't their life. They have jobs, just like a lot of the folks here. They have lives, like most of the folks here. While working on other projects, they take some of their time and work on this game.

If you were put in full charge of the LRB, or BBMag, or anything else pertaining to the game, other folks would be making the same complaints you are now. You're fooling yourself if you ever think GW, as a corporation, will ever pour as much effort into Blood Bowl as they do either of the Warhammer games. As such, changes are going to be slow, they are going to be infrequent, and they are going to cause problems.

Get off your high horse here, chief. It's getting tedious.

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:33 am

Pariah: I don't think anyone considers it necessary to ask for opinions. We've always been more than happy to provide our opinion without being asked to do so.
If there already exists n+1 threads about the rule X when a BBRC member comes along, why should he start a new one just to ask "whaddya think?"? He can just check the other threads to see what we're thinking.

You're asking why you get treated that way for opinions that other people (including me) have expressed without getting treated like that.
As Cervidal says, you've always had good opinions and I have also agreed with them from time to time. Still, you're writing gets way too easily agitated which results in people treating you like they do.
Maybe you should look at yourself for reasons why people are likely to get agitated when talking with you. Because your messages get quite hostile from time to time. They seem like you don't even want to listen to the other side. That doesn't encourage joyful replies from the other participants of the discussion.
Now, this was meant as a friendly reminder - hopefully you don't get offended. You should see from this thread that many people are getting tired of your comments on the subject and that might result in them not listening to you on other subjects either. And as your opinions are often quite enlightened, I would consider that to be a great shame. But I really can't see how that can be avoided unless you meditate about your writing style for a while.

Indigo · Post by **Indigo** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:45 am

Having seen first hand the upcoming new releases for BB over the coming year, including all the new star players & teams, as well as get the chance to ask Jervis & Andy questions about BB all I can say is that I am pleased we've got guys like them 'in charge' of our game. The level of commitment that Fanatic have to BB looks impressive to say the least, and with a community as active as ours, short term problems with rules etc. should hopefully limit the effect of dodgy articles in BB mag.

As far as I can tell, there is nothing this organised for any of the Fanatic games, or come to that 40k/WFB, so we really do have a great deal of power when it comes to shaping our hobby. It was even remarked at the BB that the NAF was groundbreaking when it came to hobbyists beginning to own their game - and this was a remark from Andy (or possibly Jervis).

Anyway, while I can appreciate the frustration at crappy articles in BB mag, rather than let the dissatisfaction turn into a hate campaign against GW, focus on getting the rules improved with the guys here and at the NAF - ffs there are enough on-line leagues to allow anyone to have a go at playtesting!

One more thing, the idea of getting the minis of ebay is kinda flawed. For them to get on there in the first place, SOMEONE has to have bought them, so GW will make it's money in the end... As far as I know it, this is the semi-official GW standpoint over ebay anyway.

Milo · Post by **Milo** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 11:43 am

Pariah wrote:How are they reporting to JJ when they haven't asked for opinions?

Could you please point me to the thread where Milo is asking the community at large what we would like to change? I can't seem to find it.

I'd start one but they seem to get mad whan I do.

Heh... do you truly believe, Pariah, that it would ever be necessary to ASK for your opinion? =)

But as for a thread, if you really want to start one, you're welcome to. I think there's probably too many different opinions to come from just one thread, and instead keep my eyes open for threads all over this forum, plus the NAF website. I also figure that several of us BBRC members have a high enough profile here that anyone who feels really strongly about something can always contact us directly.

There are several issues (mandatory catch/pickup being one) that I intend to raise for the next review because I've seen them talked about here. I can't guarantee there will be a change, but I do intend to advocate for further debate about them. (FWIW, the Ogres will probably be discussed sooner, though there may not be any "official" word of changes until the rules review is made official.)

Milo

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 11:54 am

From the NAF seminar hosted by Andy Hall and Jervis Johnson:

Khemri Blitz-Ra and Throw-Ra players are dropping to AG2
COFAB will almost certainly be used on the Vampire Team in some form.

They were experimental teams. We experimented, we decided what we liked, we commented, we discussed alternatives, it got listened to, it got changed.

Works for me.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 5:51 pm

Maybe because I never got involved in the Khemri or Vamp discussions because I didn't like the teams.

I'm sure if I had shown up we'd have had to discuss why I hate (whichever BBRC member was there at the time) instead of the real issues.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 5:55 pm

Milo wrote:Heh... do you truly believe, Pariah, that it would ever be necessary to ASK for your opinion? =)

No, I guess not. You know all about me and what I want right? You have me all figured out. And probably most of us here, right? I'm sure know every idea that every member on this board has. I forgot how smart you are. Sorry.

Milo wrote: But as for a thread, if you really want to start one, you're welcome to.

I have started a couple, they always end up like this. Now I don't start them but when I participate they become this.

Milo · Post by **Milo** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 6:04 pm

Pariah wrote:
Milo wrote:Heh... do you truly believe, Pariah, that it would ever be necessary to ASK for your opinion? =)
No, I guess not. You know all about me and what I want right? You have me all figured out. And probably most of us here, right? I'm sure know every idea that every member on this board has. I forgot how smart you are. Sorry.

I was simply joking that you seem more than willing to express your opinions, whether solicited or not. I'm sorry if you took offense from that.

Pariah wrote:
Milo wrote: But as for a thread, if you really want to start one, you're welcome to.
I have started a couple, they always end up like this. Now I don't start them but when I participate they become this.

I'm through being adversarial with you, Pariah. If you want to start a thread discussing problems you see in the rules and leave out any value judgements about Fanatic or the BBRC, I will be happy to discuss them with you and take your feedback to Jervis and the group. I have never taken affront to criticism of the rules; only when that criticism becomes veiled or outright insults towards Fanatic and the BBRC have I taken offense.

Milo

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 6:12 pm

Marcus wrote: Khemri Blitz-Ra and Throw-Ra players are dropping to AG2
COFAB will almost certainly be used on the Vampire Team in some form.

And from my side of the fence ... there was MUCH rejoicing ... HAZZA!!!

However, you didn't mention the MB to FA switch on the Mummies so I'm still a little concerned about the Khemri.

Now if we could get Jervis off the only 2 positions on the Ogre team, and you have to prove that a team that broken really is ... d*mn ... one step forward ... one step back.

Galak

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 6:14 pm

Now, now, Galak, NO VEILED INSULTS OF JJ'S ABILITIES!!!!

You don't want to make ppl think you are an ingrate, do you!

And Milo, that's fine and dandy, I'm glad you are done trying to make me your nemesis. You'll excuse me if I don't jump for joy right away, I prefer to wait and see.

EDITED MY MOUTH JUST FOR MILO

Milo · Post by **Milo** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 6:16 pm

Galak wrote:However, you didn't mention the MB to FA switch on the Mummies so I'm still a little concerned about the Khemri.

Galak,

I think the BBRC is of the opinion that we should fix Piling On rather than remove MB from the Mummies. Piling On is a problem for more players than just Mummies, and I don't believe 4 MB Mummies on a team with no AG3 is unbalanced. Time will tell, of course, but if you're really just concerned about Mummies starting with MB and earning Piling On as their first skill, I think you can relax a little -- Piling On will receive some sort of change in the next rules review to reduce it's current power.[/quote]

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 6:18 pm

maybe what khemri could do with their throw-ras is to make them kinda like khemri shooting in whfb. regardless of any and all modifiers, throw-ras are accurate on a 5+. (oh and no hail mary's their arm would fall off).

so range, tzs, foul appearance wouldn't matter to them...

I kinda like this idea.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 6:27 pm

Milo:

I think the BBRC is of the opinion that we should fix Piling On...

Excuse me while I do the Snoopy dance...

And while I don't like COFAB, I can live with it as a fix.