BB-Mag 5 Lots of fun stuff

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 12:16 am

What, a chainsaw?

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 2:39 am

Darkson wrote:So someone with #5, who on each team can be given a SW? Just linemen (and lineman-like types ie Longbeards) or anyone from that team?

ANY player.

Galak

nouge · Post by **nouge** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 2:58 am

I reckon these secret weapon rules sound pretty good - the new team access is much better (removing the combinations that are more open to abuse), although I'm a little concerned about any positional player having access to secret weapons - are 'Allies' (ie. Big Guys) allowed them?

Hey Piepgrass (or whoever else has access to a copy), what's the chance for the weapon being confisticated?

neoliminal · Post by **neoliminal** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 5:25 am

I'll answer the basic question here:

Why did some players get secret weapons and not others?

I dug as deep as I could and basically looked for old BB models that represented the secret weapons that we had listed. What you see on the list is what I could find. If there's a model in BB history, then there's access for that team.

If/when a new model comes out, then the list would get revised.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 5:37 am

Wasn't there a skeleton with a chainsaw (or was that just fluff - I can't remember).

And why not allow other teams access for conversions?

Personally, I'd say Linemen (or equivilent) only, the positionals spend to much time on training on the ..um.. positions. That'l be the why I house next time my club plays BB.

And I've got a AG4 Norse lineman just waiting for that chainsaw to come through the post

neoliminal · Post by **neoliminal** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 6:02 am

I used this source for finding minitures that used SW's.

http://www.midgardbb.com/BB2ndEd/2ndEdMinis.html

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 7:03 am

No offense but that is a really dumb way of deciding that sort of thing.

And then you all wonder why alot of us think the new rules are driven soley by mini-sales. Yeesh!

Like I said, I'm not slamming you, but something as potentially problem causing as secret weapons needs more thought than that! Especially when those 2nd edition minis are for a completely different game! Just the other day I thought to myself that maybe I've been too hard on the BBRC and Fanatic butwith silliness like this it's hard to hold that thought.

Normally I like the rules you make but in this case...Bad Neo.

neoliminal · Post by **neoliminal** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 7:11 am

Well, first most of these guys aren't for sale anymore. Period.

Second, the rules are experimental, so if you want to test out having chainsaws on Amazons, go for it. Currently we're under a mandate from Jervis that every rule needs a fig and every fig needs a rule. I bent this rule a bit because technically none of the older figs are still in production.

The list would have been a hell of a lot shorter if I only took the figs in prodution. That would have been dumb, IMO

The rules were built from the perspective that you would need figures for them and that we were testing a basic mechanic. If this works out, then you can rest assured that future secret weapons would make their way into the game and probably for more than one race (maybe a stand alone chainsaw set, so you could add them to your own figures??)

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 7:43 am

I see what you are saying. I know the whole fig/rule thing.

Like I said, I usually like the rules I see from you. This is a bad Fanatic (or BBRC? which ever...JJ) move.

It seems a silly thing to do. This rule isn't in effect for the other games? Where are all the hydra minis for WHFB? Or the Beasts of Nurgle? or the cockatrice, the centaurs, or the chimera, or the gorgon, or the hippogriff, or the manticore?

Why the double standard that impededes rules for Blood Bowl?

I'm not blaming you and the "bad Neo" thing was just a joke really. I just don't see how testing the rules one way and then canonizing them another is a good idea.

neoliminal · Post by **neoliminal** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 8:09 am

Pariah wrote:I see what you are saying. I know the whole fig/rule thing.

Like I said, I usually like the rules I see from you. This is a bad Fanatic (or BBRC? which ever...JJ) move.

It seems a silly thing to do. This rule isn't in effect for the other games? Where are all the hydra minis for WHFB? Or the Beasts of Nurgle? or the cockatrice, the centaurs, or the chimera, or the gorgon, or the hippogriff, or the manticore?

Why the double standard that impededes rules for Blood Bowl?

I'm not blaming you and the "bad Neo" thing was just a joke really. I just don't see how testing the rules one way and then canonizing them another is a good idea.

Don't make the classic error of confusing Fanatic and GW. They are really two different cultures. One gives free rules downloads on the web, the other changes the rules whenever possible.

The basic mechanics are the confiscation and the new pricing. With those two parts in place you can make any SW you want.

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 8:41 am

nouge wrote:although I'm a little concerned about any positional player having access to secret weapons - are 'Allies' (ie. Big Guys) allowed them?

I like that freedom. The restrictions to the use of SW's should be in the form of confiscation and the fact that you have to buy them to get them as neo stated. With the amount of money available nowadays to the teams, they shouldn't be bristling with secret weapons, especially when they have developed a bit.
If there are too many weapons around, simply increase the price or make confiscations more probable.

Sixpack595 · Post by **Sixpack595** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 8:43 am

Most of those figs are or were made. The ones not made are easily converted. As for the difference between WFB and BB... BB players hate to convert. Since a WFB player will spent hours and dollars to make a fig, its OK by GW and the players. Many BB players won't even buy figs to play. GW probably wants to make money off of the game they developed, so basing rules off of the figs they sell make sense. Maybe if BB players started buying figs GW could start making money off of it, and new figs would result in new rules.

Pariah wrote:I see what you are saying. I know the whole fig/rule thing.

Where are all the hydra minis for WHFB? Or the Beasts of Nurgle? or the cockatrice, the centaurs, or the chimera, or the gorgon, or the hippogriff, or the manticore?

Why the double standard that impededes rules for Blood Bowl?

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 8:48 am

Sixpack595 wrote: As for the difference between WFB and BB... BB players hate to convert. Since a WFB player will spent hours and dollars to make a fig, its OK by GW and the players. Many BB players won't even buy figs to play.

Speak for yourself Sixpack. It's kind of pointless to make such generalisations, there are bound to be differences between coaches. I hardly even see out-of-the-box teams around here - most team have some converted figures, some teams are completely converted and everyone paints their teams.
So I really don't think that's the difference. There are bound to be also whfb players who use substitutes or don't paint their minis etc.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 8:54 am

Well, Sixpack you don't realize the catch 22.

When I want to make a chainsaw conversion what do I buy? Blood Bowl minis that aren't sold in my local shop? No. I buy a 40K fig and chop the saw loose. This whole BB players don't buy the minis is bullshit. Look at the miniatures page on this site. Look at the many different BB websites. There are loads and loads of conversions out there.

Somebody somewhere in the GW machine (that does include Fanatic) doesn't realize that we buy from other ranges. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that BB coaches are the only ones who buy from every range.

No matter who made the rule up the no fig/no rule idea is stupid. Especially when you let it affect future rules. Why do the minis need to be made before the rules? That doesn't seem right to me.
It's like the damn ogre team. The minis have ab ogre tossing a snotling/goblin, so now the ogre team must have snotlings or goblins. "Game mechanics be damned, we gotta sell these ogres!"

So if we can't get experimental weapon rules for amazons or norse because there are no minis, then how are we to test the rules to get the minis?

See? Stupid.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 12:26 pm

neoliminal wrote:I bent this rule a bit because technically none of the older figs are still in production

Uh, its not technically .. its actually these guys are not still in production.

So what does that mean for Joe BB. Its means conversion which for most secret weapon players. And by the way there is NOTHING easier to convert than a Norse, Amazon, or Undead player to have a Chainsaw. I can do one in about 40 seconds ... not joking.
The hand position of Goblin chainsaw player 073387/24 makes the conversion a breeze (back in the day when the archive still sold these guys I used to order then 5 to 6 at a time).
http://www.solegends.com/citcat912/c203 ... lins-h.htm

Since there are no real minis for these rules you had to bend the rules. You also did some MAJOR bending to get a poisoned dagger for the Skaven I noticed. That required you to use a WFB fig. So along those lines, I'd like to request a Bomb option for the Khemri team. There is a bomb throwing Skeleton from WFB that is a VERY cool fig. I used to buy him from the archive and sell him on Ebay as a Bomb throwing Skeleton star .... always got good bids for him (074503/19).
http://www.solegends.com/citcat912/c203 ... tons-h.htm

The other one I'll look forward to that we used in my league was a WFB fig to allow Dwarves to have bomb throwers also.
WFB fig: Dwarf with Dynamite: 074350/15
http://www.solegends.com/citcat912/c202 ... inrs-h.htm

Sorry, I've spent hours and hours researching and converting figs for secret weapons. An older league I played in allowed Halfling Blind Dust with appropriate figs. Since my skills with green stuff were not that great, I converted a WFB Halfing with the bag from a Bandit Ogre ( http://www.solegends.com/citcat912/c20292ogres-h.htm ).

Bottom line ... the conversions are very simple. The figs are not out there. Neo on this one I think JJ would have been a little more forgiving. As long as Nobbla exists any team that makes sense should be able to have a chainsaw. Same with bombs (I've converted some wicked looking Dark Elf Throwers with cut up bomb throwing Goblin stars). And ANY race can be made to appear to have a poisoned dagger. The conversion for this is very simple.

I'm not sure really how the mandate rule for rule=fig applies, but surely the list should be what makes sense rather than bending/stretching/and distorting OOP BB figs to justify it.

Galak