Was: Dead Dwarf Now: Paint range discussion

[Rolex]

...w@nker white or whatever stupid name they think of.

Is from the same range of "monthly" red?

[Thadrin]

[Joemanji]

Some say the paint is better. I've tried it and it's still shite.

So what do you use (as a good painter)?

[JT-Y]

I use Foundry paint, Vallejo inks and washes and Army Painter aerosols and washes, with the odd pot from Tamiya for certain things, like Tamiya Smoke and some clears. And the occasional pot of P3 paint and ink.

[el Superbeasto]

Paint discussion? Yeah, I'm in!
If said this before in another thread, so I'll be lazy and just copy-paste most of it, as I'm still of the same oppinon(s):

Regarding paints, I have only good things to say about Formula P3. The paint is smooth, good for blending and has good coverage. Simply love'em to bits!

If you like the old Citadel paints, you can also try Coat d'Arms. They are the old manufactures of Citadel paints and all their colours are therefore directly comparable to Citadel colours. It's a good solid product (though I still prefer P3).

I don't have a lot of experience with Vallejo, but the ones I've used have been with mixed success. Some were top notch while others were pretty lousy. Especially when you try to thin it.

If you like the drop bottles, I can recommend Reaper Paints. They can be a bit hard to find in Europe, though, but they are nice to work with. -And if you're lazy when it comes to mixing your paint (like me), Reaper Paints can be the answer to your prayers as they come in "triads"; shadow, base and highlight.

Oh, and finally, GW paint sucks! Can you paint beautiful minis with GW paint? Yes! So why do they suck? (Glad you asked!)
1) The quality is not as good as P3, Reaper, or Coat d'Arms.
2) They are way more expensive!
3) Their containers are not(!) airtight (and haven't been since they stopped working with HMG), so your paint will slowly but surely start to dry out. I have old Citadel/HMG paint, on the other hand, that is 20 years old (really!), and the quality is still top notch. (Except for the gold and bronze, which is f'ed up...)

[JT-Y]

If you like P3 and CDA try Foundry. It's HMG's best range made with a lot of input from pro painters to be very exacting. P3 came later and is of similar quality but a much smaller range, although some colours are unique to P3.

[el Superbeasto]

If you like P3 and CDA try Foundry. It's HMG's best range made with a lot of input from pro painters to be very exacting. P3 came later and is of similar quality but a much smaller range, although some colours are unique to P3.

Cool, cheers! Will give them a try.

[Vanguard]

I use Foundry paint, Vallejo inks and washes and Army Painter aerosols and washes, with the odd pot from Tamiya for certain things, like Tamiya Smoke and some clears. And the occasional pot of P3 paint and ink.

Just for clarity, those are all acrylic based paints? I had a look at the Foundry paint system, the grouping of paints into trios is nice, am I right in thinking that they don't do washes at all? Are they advocating starting with the darkest and painting up to highlight or using thinned paint to wash? I'm guessing you're using Vallejo washes to get around this.

While we're talking painting, anyone got opinions on brushes? (As a reference, I'm still using GW paint and brushes and am fairly happy, although have nothing to compare to.)

[DixonCider]

I use a lot of P3, Granny, Vallejo... actually I go for the colors I want and don't really care about who makes it

[JT-Y]

I use Foundry paint, Vallejo inks and washes and Army Painter aerosols and washes, with the odd pot from Tamiya for certain things, like Tamiya Smoke and some clears. And the occasional pot of P3 paint and ink.

Just for clarity, those are all acrylic based paints? I had a look at the Foundry paint system, the grouping of paints into trios is nice, am I right in thinking that they don't do washes at all? Are they advocating starting with the darkest and painting up to highlight or using thinned paint to wash? I'm guessing you're using Vallejo washes to get around this.

While we're talking painting, anyone got opinions on brushes? (As a reference, I'm still using GW paint and brushes and am fairly happy, although have nothing to compare to.)

All water based acrylic yes.
Foundry do three inks, but they aren't great. One thing HMG has never excelled at is ink, the ones they do now P3 are about their best.
I should explain that a few years ago washes didn't exist in pots but have always been common among painters, being as they are a mixture of paint and/or ink and certain matte mediums and flow controllers/enhancers/retarders.
Foundry paint is incredibly rich in pigment, so whilst being openly designed for a heavy layering style, they also loan themselves very well indeed to dilution for wet blending to shade down or hilight up, which was also a deliberate design choice.
Many of those consulted with on the Foundry range had input on the P3 range as well, as HMG like to work with customers to learn requirements.
It has been said that the current range of GW paint is made by HMG, but it ain't so, they're as Chinese as birds nest soup.

GW were the first to market pre-mixed washes, and it was a good idea. Since then though they have been overtaken in terms of quality and value for money by both Vallejo and Army Painter (the latter only offers three, dark colours though).
I don't mix paint due to the huge variety in colours available from Foundry and P3, I don't need to, and these days I'm able to avoid mixing washes as well thanks to Vallejo and AP.

As for inks, the best I've ever used were the GW ones in the screw top hex pots first time around. That range was made by a French company before they dumped that supplier and went to China for even lower prices and to hell with the quality.
Those particular inks are still available but are very difficult to track down.
Windsor & Newton inks are decent, as are the Vallejo inks.

As for brushes I use W&N series 7's.
They aren't cheap but they are excellent. Many times I've heard it said that ''I'm not that good a painter so it's a waste of money to spend that much on brushes''.
Not so. You couldn't write neatly with a pen with a damaged tip or that the ink keeps clogging and clumping from, and the principle should be the same with brushes; good quality brushes do help.
Besides, cheap brushes are a false economy. A £3 brush may last a few months, but a £10 plus W&N S7 will last more than five years, I'm currently still using brushes that are seven years old or more.

I hear good things about Rosemary & Co as well, which are, I gather, cheaper.
I can't comment as I've never used them, but I reckon they are also worth a punt.

GW brushes have never been great quality, but again these days the quality isn't a consideration next to how cheaply they can be sourced.

Hope that helps.

[Dr. Von Richten]

I used to use only GW (for one thing, because they are in my home city, and any retailers of other paints aren't), but since the change to their paint range I'm slowly replacing all colours with their Vallejo equivalent, and Army Painter's Strong Tone for Devlan Mud. Certainly cheaper, and less paint wasted, but honestly I don't notice any difference in the paint quality. That's probably just me being oblivious, though!

[JT-Y]

Vallejo paint isn't all that dense really, so in that respect is more like GW paint (GW can take their fcuking 'dry compounds' and shove them where the monkey put his nut. Pre-dried-up muck? How very dare they). I know plenty of painters who stick to Vallejo because they just can't adapt to the density of P3 or CDA, let alone Foundry.
Dropper bottles require a thinner fluid basically.

It all boils down to a couple of key considerations; GW paint is actually one of the worst ranges on the market, and GW paint is one of the most expensive ranges on the market.
Knowing that the question is which competitor range will suit you the painter best. I'd always recommend a mixture of ranges to get the best from all, but really you the painter has to try the paint to find what fits.

[Fassbinder75]

Vallejo paint isn't all that dense really

You might need to make a distinction between Vallejo Model and Game Colour ranges. Model colour is very dense, Game colour can be a lot thinner.

I've only got one P3, a Kelly Green colour I used for orc flesh an I found it didn't cover very well at all. Not a bad consistency though.

I agree that a painter needs to find their own preferences, and by and large that means buying stuff you're not gonna like.

[Heff]

...w@nker white or whatever stupid name they think of.

Is from the same range of "monthly" red?

Would you believe me if I was to say that was not deliberate

[spubbbba]

Vallejo paint isn't all that dense really

You might need to make a distinction between Vallejo Model and Game Colour ranges. Model colour is very dense, Game colour can be a lot thinner.

I've only got one P3, a Kelly Green colour I used for orc flesh an I found it didn't cover very well at all. Not a bad consistency though.

I agree that a painter needs to find their own preferences, and by and large that means buying stuff you're not gonna like.

This is so true for Vallejo, their Game range is garbage and has awful coverage. I didn't realise there were 2 separate ranges and just thought they did some colours badly. I have some good paints from their Model but do seem to spend more time shaking and remixing them than actually painting with them.

I like to mix and match paints as some ranges do certain colours very badly or don't have quite the tone I want and that saves time mixing.

I have to say the new GW paints I've used have been largely excellent, but like all their stuff overpriced. They do some really good base coats that don't separate like the old foundation paints used to. But the washes aren't as good as the old versions.
Their blacks suck now, I miss the old Chaos Black, but so does the Coat D arms black I have and the gloss Vallejo.

The P3 paints I've used have all been good, but I like to see them directly before buying and few stores stock them so I've only used a couple.

If I had to recommend just 1 range to someone I'd go with Coat D Arms as the paints are good, a decent price and I like the bottles. Personally I had droppers it means you have to put them on a pallet of some kind.