Dwarves are filth...

[Shteve0]

Then we have the Journeyman question.

Which team has the best Journeymen. Is it Ogres?

Wood Elves have 7347s. High/Dark Elves have 6348.

I'm not saying dwarves are fine, but I wouldn't object to seeing linemen capped at 60k.

[Heff]

Then we have the Journeyman question.

Which team has the best Journeymen. Is it Ogres?

Wood Elves have 7347s. High/Dark Elves have 6348.

I'm not saying dwarves are fine, but I wouldn't object to seeing linemen capped at 60k.

But no inbuilt re rolls. This comes to the nub of my problem. excessively skilled linemen. Norse have block but at av7 are glass, zons have dodge but are also glass. gobbos/flings are glass AND stunty, snots should not be allowed on the field and are no substitute for a downed ogre. from memory everyone else is skill less. Sure an elf lineman is a better player than a human one and so less risky to use because of the inbuilt superiority. a dwarf though is as hard as nails, has the best starting skill and sticky tackle zones due to tackle. get your unskilled blitzer put down and into his place you get a slower less agile player with more skills. Clearly I am alone in seeing a problem with this. remove tackle and str access on linemen and I am growing a beard, you can even give the blitzers tackle to start.

Dwarf linemen are positionals on any other team, as they are on chaos dwarves who are a much more interesting team that I will play someday.

[The Dazzler]

Tell me, what's the difference between Dwarf linemen and CDs which makes CDs more acceptable in your book? And i play both (and other teams)

You only get 6 CDs max of course but you only need 6 by the time you've added the BCs and a couple of Hobs [and possibly the Mino]. Ok, you probably start with only 5 x CDs unlike Dwarfs' 6 x 'beards

2 x Dwarf Blitzers, 2 x TS, 1 x Runner (initially) and, guess what, 6 Dwarf Linemen. Sure you can add more linemen (and journeymen if you're very unlucky) but why would you bother unless its to self handicap.

I find CDs as a team easier to use (perhaps) and more fun than using Dwarfs. You can end up with a lot of draws playing Dwarfs. They're actually more of a challenge to use until they're developed and then i agree they're nails.

Incidentally, i'd have no objection to Longbeards losing Tackle and easy access to Strength skills. Presumably they'd then be rated as Tier2? In fact, i don't get the whole concept of Tier 1 teams except to encourage newbies to play more experienced players

Out of interest why do so many of you Blood Bowl Gods use Tier 1 teams in tournies? I thought that they should be reserved for us mere mortals Surely T2 teams would be more interesting or, if you're nuts, stunties?

[Smeborg]

The team has the lowest MA and the 2nd lowest AG in the game both of which are huge disadvantages.

Since when?

Halflings have an aggregate MA of 49, Dwarfs 52. So Dwarfs have the second lowest MA in the game (not the lowest).

Khemri have an aggregate AG of 18, Lizardmen 19, Chaos Dwarfs 24/25 (with and without Mino), Dwarfs 26. So Dwarfs have the fourth lowest AG in the game (not the second lowest).

All the best.

[Heff]

Tell me, what's the difference between Dwarf linemen and CDs which makes CDs more acceptable in your book? And i play both (and other teams)

You only get 6 CDs max of course but you only need 6 by the time you've added the BCs and a couple of Hobs [and possibly the Mino]. Ok, you probably start with only 5 x CDs unlike Dwarfs' 6 x 'beards

2 x Dwarf Blitzers, 2 x TS, 1 x Runner (initially) and, guess what, 6 Dwarf Linemen. Sure you can add more linemen (and journeymen if you're very unlucky) but why would you bother unless its to self handicap.

I find CDs as a team easier to use (perhaps) and more fun than using Dwarfs. You can end up with a lot of draws playing Dwarfs. They're actually more of a challenge to use until they're developed and then i agree they're nails.

Incidentally, i'd have no objection to Longbeards losing Tackle and easy access to Strength skills. Presumably they'd then be rated as Tier2? In fact, i don't get the whole concept of Tier 1 teams except to encourage newbies to play more experienced players

Out of interest why do so many of you Blood Bowl Gods use Tier 1 teams in tournies? I thought that they should be reserved for us mere mortals Surely T2 teams would be more interesting or, if you're nuts, stunties?

Not a bloodbowl god so cannot answer the last point. My problem is that the lineman grunt on a dwarf team is a positional on any other team! Kill the chaos dwarf positional and you get a hobgoblin, universally considered one of the WORST str3 players about. Kill a dwarf positional and get a lineman, arguably the best and certainly not useless line fodder. THAT in a nutshell is my problem. That and the team is SO VERY BORING to play against. Would not play with them because the only self abuse I get involved in has a better pay off!

[The Dazzler]

I sold my CD team to a friend when i started a season with Dwarfs [i'd been to a number of tournies and got particularly hammered by good Dwarf players and figured if you can't beat them ...]. At the time i considered CDs and Dwarfs to be too similar and as the Dwarfs were all new and shiney.

I bought my CD team back off said friend when he offered me dibs one year later - he didn't like them for some reason. CDs are an interesting and fun team to play. I confess that i've felt a little dirty using Dwarfs as their progression is so predictable/no-brainer decisions. I use fun teams now: Pact, Underworld, Gobbos etc especially in local leagues.

Nobody enjoys playing against Dwarfs so i tend to shy away from using them [i reserve the right to use them though when i see BB gods taking Tier 1 teams in tournies!]

[Heff]

I sold my CD team to a friend when i started a season with Dwarfs [i'd been to a number of tournies and got particularly hammered by good Dwarf players and figured if you can't beat them ...]

I bought my CD team back off a friend when he offered me dibs. CDs are an interesting and fun team to play. I confess that i've felt a little dirty using Dwarfs as their progression is so predictable/no-brainer decisions.

Nobody enjoys playing against Dwarfs so i tend to shy away from using them now [i reserve the right to use then though when i see BB gods taking Tier 1 teams!]

GOOD and Dwarf player in the same sentence, surely a mistake. Your second paragraph supports my argument 100% I hate because they are overpowered, I hate because they are played by powergamers of the worst stripe but mostly I hate because they are BORING.

To answer your T1 question the gods play them because they are measuring themselves against other gods who may not be at the same tourney. Its about keeping up with your peers. I have been taken apart by Joemanji using dwarves v my Ogres, he did it in his sleep. I have also played Geggster and as always it was like being strangled by a python. Watch a game BETWEEN those two and suddenly you see what its like at the top and understand why people up there will turn up with T1 teams.

[The Dazzler]

Good points well made chap.

I'll keep having fun with Tier2/3 teams and accept that i'm BB god fodder

[nonumber]

You can't argue on the fact that Dwarves have the best "Linemen". I think if you just took tackle off the Longbears and gave it to the Blitzers that's a good start. But as I've said, I've had some terrible, terrible games with Dwarves. I lost to Heff for crying out loud. I took them to Stabb Cup and lost against three or four stunty teams and vampires. A great coach with Dwarves is a fearsome prospect but Dwarves do not make a great coach.

[Heff]

2-0 and SIX casualties as I recall. I was using ogres

[Thadrin]

He was playing Wood Elves?
AG4 across the board, EVERY player on the team faster than any of the opposing team, and the single best starting player in the game.
Any whining is therefore invalid.

Dwarfs vs Wood Elves is always going to be horrendous - but it can just as easily be a hail of early turnovers for the Dwarfs while the Elves roll their 2 ups all game long.

[SunDevil]

Khemri have an aggregate AG of 18, Lizardmen 19, Chaos Dwarfs 24/25 (with and without Mino), Dwarfs 26. So Dwarfs have the fourth lowest AG in the game (not the second lowest).

Yeah! Khemri are the BEST...at having the worst AG! Thank you Smeborg for making sure this is corrected before rumors start!

I am not being sarcastic. I love the clumsy Khemri and I enjoy their place as "Worst Ag Team in BB"!

[Smurf]

He was playing Wood Elves?
AG4 across the board, EVERY player on the team faster than any of the opposing team, and the single best starting player in the game.
Any whining is therefore invalid.

Dwarfs vs Wood Elves is always going to be horrendous - but it can just as easily be a hail of early turnovers for the Dwarfs while the Elves roll their 2 ups all game long.

You must be joking virtually at beginning teams. It was strict one way pulverisation and that was it.

[Darkson]

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=27863&p=515551

And Dwarf armour sucks - Lycos managed 11(!) Cas on BigBelcher's Dwarf team in game 1, and only missed the 12th by not being any good at fouling!

[Thadrin]

He was playing Wood Elves?
AG4 across the board, EVERY player on the team faster than any of the opposing team, and the single best starting player in the game.
Any whining is therefore invalid.

Dwarfs vs Wood Elves is always going to be horrendous - but it can just as easily be a hail of early turnovers for the Dwarfs while the Elves roll their 2 ups all game long.

You must be joking virtually at beginning teams. It was strict one way pulverisation and that was it.

YOUR game was like that. I've seen plenty like it. I've also seen plenty where the Dwarfs can't break armour, 1-in-9 every other turn, and the Elves have no 1s on their dice. I've had games with Dwarfs when I've benn 2 down three turns in. I've been out-cas'd by Elves.

You had a bad one Suck it up.