BB Mag #6

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 8:05 pm

I don't mind this roster suggestion, I could live with it.

BigD · Post by **BigD** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 8:47 pm

Gotta say I agree. I like this roster better than the other. Would still like to have seen a seperate thrower myself but having ONLY the Blitzers with TTM gives a good chance to specialist. Its going to take quite a few games for team development but I'm looking forward to seeing the results of Pariah with this team. I suspect he'll do better than the BBMAG6 one which I'm looking forward to seeing. Having just done the numbers for a team I've gotta say its going to be a hard one in the long run. But you definitely need the Gobbos in the team and I suspect 4 may not be enough. I guess we'll find out?

BigD

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 9:08 pm

Mestari wrote:From Galak's suggestion I'd change:

-No Big Guy on blockers (consistency is not a good reason to have it).
-Drop MB and gen access from blockers and their price to 90k - I like the increased roster flexibility
-Boost reroll cost to 80k or even 90k

The "Cockerel" would then be the following one:
Code: Select all
0-12  Ogre Blocker   5  5  1  9  Really Stupid, TSkull
            90k   S
0-4   Ogre Blitzer   5  5  2  9  Bonehead, Mighty Blow, TSkull, TTM
            120k   G/S
0-4   Goblin Catcher 6  2  3  7  Dodge, Stunty, Right Stuff        
             40k   A
80k Rerolls

Forgive me Mestari ... but BLEH!!!!! I really don't like what you did with the Blocker ... sorry it just does nothing for me. Pariah already started testing this roster:

Code: Select all

0-12  Ogre Blocker   5  5  1  9  Mighty Blow, Really Stupid, TSkull, Big Guy
            100k   G/S
0-4   Ogre Blitzer   5  5  2  9  Bonehead, Mighty Blow, TSkull, TTM
            120k   G/S
0-4   Goblin Catcher 6  2  3  7  Dodge, Stunty, Right Stuff        
             40k   A
70k Rerolls

Several notes to your changes IMO
1) Taking Big Guy off the Blocker is just not the right way to go. I'd rather give the Blitzers Big Guy before REMOVING it from the team.
2) Taking MB away from the Blocker ... well that something like Milo said can be considered if we see the team racking up too many casualties (ie its an adjustable item but not one I see a need for up front).
3) Raising the rerolls to 80k and dropping the price of the Blocker 10k is basically a wash ... at 70k the team is only starting with ONE!!!! anyway, so I'm not sure I see the mass drive for 80k to 90k rerolls.
4) There are not enough Strength skills to have a ST access only player in BB. I just don't support not have Gen access on the Blocker.

Finally as to Anthony's concern that the team has too many Ogres with a full team having 12 Ogres and 4 Goblins. That team still has 8 Ogres that cannot use Team Reroll AND have Really Stupid which only the 4 Goblins can turn into Bonehead rolls. IE even a fully developed team is REALLY going to have some serious gameplay issues. I'd don't fear a fully developed Ogre team with this roster.

Galak

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 9:43 pm

I guess we will see how this roster works out in the MBBL.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 9:54 pm

Chet thought sure that the team would be left experimental in the 2003 Rules Review ... so that means we'll all have time to make sure a roster that works is ready before the team is made official in 2004.

Now that could end up being wrong and a roster might get voted in by the other 6 BBRC members this October ... but it did make me feel better to think that we probably have 1 1/2 to get the bugs out of this one.

Galak

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 6:38 am

GalakStarscraper wrote: Forgive me Mestari ... but BLEH!!!!!

No offense taken.

The reason I really dislike having Big Guy on anyone of these players is the fact that so many players in a team would have it. Even though I agree with the desire to make the team a hard one to play, I rather let them loose MB than give them BG to keep it in check. Makes the MB/POn combo harder to aqcuire too. A team where the majority of the players can't use team rerolls? Big Guy is a skill meant to keep Big Guys from being a too invaluable asset for the other teams, so I really can't understand why the linefodder of a big guy team should have it. You say not giving them BG is "not the way to go" - any other justifications except a personal preference?
The fluff rationale is that team rerolls are team rerolls for a reason, and while big guys might have hard time following practice sessions of other races, together they could have suitable slow-paced trainings to be able to learn something.

Str-skill access only. The main reason is disallowing block and pro access from them, limiting the possibility of developing devastating players from anyone except the blitzers. And there are enough ST skills - I'm not particularly worried about the blockers racking up truckloads of SPP's.

And what comes to Anthonys concern about too many Ogres: without gen access and without MB, they are just oversized BOB's who really have no long-term development capabilities either - many of them should fail their RS rolls every turn also so the lineup should be as airtight as a fishnet.

The MB is not the biggest issue to me, but I'd definitely want to lose BG from the blockers, increase reroll cost and remove gen-skill access from them.

darthnoir · Post by **darthnoir** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 4:55 pm

Galak, in the SVBBL and EAGBBL we will try out the following roster as an expperimental team:

Code: Select all

0-12  Ogre Blocker   5  5  1  9  Mighty Blow, Really Stupid, TSkull, Big Guy
            100k   G/S
0-4   Ogre Blitzer   5  5  2  9  Bonehead, Mighty Blow, TSkull, TTM
            120k   G/S
0-4   Goblin Catcher 6  2  3  7  Dodge, Stunty, Right Stuff       
             40k   A
70k Rerolls

I'll post feedback on the team's progress. Shall I post it in this thread, or should I start a new one (or is this even the right forum)?

Of course, there wont be much activity in either league until I get back from the tournament this weekend.

-Marcus Ervin

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 5:28 pm

I agree with everything Mestari said!!!!!
Unfortunately we have to deal with the BBRC to get it official. So far the progress has been that I showed the old roster to Chet and Neo. Chet doesn't like the Blocker as he is too similar to the Lineman. After a couple e-mails I get the old "nice house rule" answer. Neo doesn't reply at all...

typical I get bored with trying to break the clique.
Weeks later Milo is beratting me for contributing nothing but complaining about the BBRC and Fanatic

and through my charm I actually win him over to support the ogre team.
After some tweaks to please Milo, we show it to Chet who thinks the Blocker is too similar to a BoB

(that one I just don't get. after all isn't a dwarf runner the same as a human passer? And these are both BLOCKERS!) and has us change the blocker to be nearly identical to the blitzer.

Personally I hate the Blockers but the roster is still leaps and bounds better than that Fanatic one. Personally, I'd like to see the ogre team be like an old 2nd edition team. (IE Has all the positions Thrower, Catcher, Blocker, Blitzer, Lineman) Hah! Try to get that past the BBRC wall!

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 8:21 pm

darthnoir wrote:Galak, in the SVBBL and EAGBBL we will try out the following roster as an expperimental team:
Code: Select all
0-12  Ogre Blocker   5  5  1  9  Mighty Blow, Really Stupid, TSkull, Big Guy
            100k   G/S
0-4   Ogre Blitzer   5  5  2  9  Bonehead, Mighty Blow, TSkull, TTM
            120k   G/S
0-4   Goblin Catcher 6  2  3  7  Dodge, Stunty, Right Stuff       
             40k   A
70k Rerolls
I'll post feedback on the team's progress. Shall I post it in this thread, or should I start a new one (or is this even the right forum)?

Of course, there wont be much activity in either league until I get back from the tournament this weekend.

-Marcus Ervin

Marcus ... I'll start a new thread as Eric started testing the team also this weekend. We'll get some game reports and see what happens.

Galak

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 11:32 pm

I'd still personally like to see the blockers lose their General access, but I'm coming round to the Blitzers losing their BG trait.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 12:19 am

ECBBL will be trialling aforementioned roster.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 1:33 am

Marcus wrote:ECBBL will be trialling aforementioned roster.

New thread to post results of testing at:

viewtopic.php?p=63026#63026

Galak

Sixpack595 · Post by **Sixpack595** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 6:18 am

I really think giving BG to the blockers is a bad idea. raise the cost of RRs through the roof, and let anyone on the team use them. I will be rare to waste them on the Blockers anyway, so no harm done, and it streamlines the rules.

I think allowing only S skills will also mean everyone has piling on after a couple games...bad idea. At least let them try some less deadly skills. Give all Ogres access to General as well as S.

Overall, I like this list...cept for the BG on blockers and the cheap rerolls. If you raise the price of the RRs it will take forever for them to get 2nd or 3rd RRs, making it even less important to give blockers BG. I think 90K would be fine. How long does it take to save up 180K during the season? Big guy is fine on regular teams, but the whole team is big, so they are no longer big guys...they are regular guys.

GalakStarscraper wrote: Forgive me Mestari ... but BLEH!!!!! I really don't like what you did with the Blocker ... sorry it just does nothing for me. Pariah already started testing this roster:
Code: Select all
0-12  Ogre Blocker   5  5  1  9  Mighty Blow, Really Stupid, TSkull, Big Guy
            100k   G/S
0-4   Ogre Blitzer   5  5  2  9  Bonehead, Mighty Blow, TSkull, TTM
            120k   G/S
0-4   Goblin Catcher 6  2  3  7  Dodge, Stunty, Right Stuff        
             40k   A
70k Rerolls
Several notes to your changes IMO
1) Taking Big Guy off the Blocker is just not the right way to go. I'd rather give the Blitzers Big Guy before REMOVING it from the team.
2) Taking MB away from the Blocker ... well that something like Milo said can be considered if we see the team racking up too many casualties (ie its an adjustable item but not one I see a need for up front).
3) Raising the rerolls to 80k and dropping the price of the Blocker 10k is basically a wash ... at 70k the team is only starting with ONE!!!! anyway, so I'm not sure I see the mass drive for 80k to 90k rerolls.
4) There are not enough Strength skills to have a ST access only player in BB. I just don't support not have Gen access on the Blocker.

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 6:59 am

The blockers should definitely lose BG. It simply isn't the way to go to deny the use of team rerolls from the majority of the team.

The rest can be fought about, but my point is to either let them lose MB or gen-access or preferably both. These guys really should be the "anti-gobboes" as someone said: lots of ST, but they can't use it efficiently enough (no MB) and little brains (no general skills). Also, reroll cost should be higher.

Unfortunately at the moment I cannot kick-start testing with my own preferred solution (just a friendly note about the method of trying to cut debate), but I definitely think this version to be better than Galak's suggestion and to have more chances of making it to print.

Post by **Thadrin** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 7:13 am

away with Big guy and MB on the Blockers vote no.3.
Otherwise its what I'd like to see...though I just saw how much GW are charging for the figs. 8 quid EACH. That means a full team will set you back about 106 pounds stirling.