BB Mag #6

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 11:59 pm

My thoughts exactly Ian.

I don't see any reason to put Big Guy on the Blitzers when your starting Ogre team is either going to have no Blitzers and a reroll or Blitzers and no rerolls .... ie same difference ... its only the long haul that matters and I have a feeling that developing this team will be a long slow and pain staking process.

I'm very happy with where the roster is currently ... get back to you all later with what we find out.

Galak

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:25 pm

It's not because of balance that i want blitzers to have big guy. It's because it simply doesn't make sense otherwise! He's big, isn't he? Try explaining to a rookie why the big ogre in front of him isn't a big guy...

Besides, i find that to be a huge lack of consistency if blockers have big guys and blitzers don't. Try explaining that as well.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 11:29 pm

Consistency is the stupidest reason to do something, Zombie. The balance of the team is much more importatnt. If the team works as is, then later they can hammer out the fluff as to why Blockers don't get to use rerolls and blitzers do.

You could easily throw out the Big Guy trait, rule that Really Stupid players and allies don't ever use team rerolls.

Problem solved.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 11:55 pm

I agree with Pariah, if we insist on consistency, then both delf and helf throwers must cost the same. This is a special team that deserves special rules.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:05 am

Pariah has agreed to play the Ogre team in the MBBL starting on Monday ... look out everybody he's big and mean and ready to clean house.

Pariah ... I need that roster with names ASAP please.

Galak

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:10 am

Coming

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:14 am

Tired of getting your ass kicked with that broken pact team then?

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:29 am

Well I'm tired of getting my ass kicked BY broken pact teams!

Never really played any normal teams. Well the one that I destroyed.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 2:33 am

Pariah wrote:Consistency is the stupidest reason to do something, Zombie. The balance of the team is much more importatnt. If the team works as is, then later they can hammer out the fluff as to why Blockers don't get to use rerolls and blitzers do.

You could easily throw out the Big Guy trait, rule that Really Stupid players and allies don't ever use team rerolls.

Problem solved.

This team is supposed to be really bad at playing the game. Balance is only really important to insure that teams aren't overpowered. Underpowered isn't such a big deal. And giving them all "big guy" makes them worse, so i don't see where the problem is.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 3:17 am

Making them challenging and making them unplayable are two different things.

Like I said, I tested the earlier roster over 5 games and lost every one. That included a loss to a goblin team where I injured his only troll very early on. The lack of rerolls combined with AG 1 & 2 makes them nearly unplayable. I know 5 games isn't alot but I could after those 5 games that we needed to return to the drawing board already. I had several turns that were nothing but failed pick ups.
Someone on this team besides the gobbos need to be able to reroll so they can at least score. If playtesting shows it's too much then I'll have no problem looking for other solutions.
One thing you should also realize about letting the Blitzers reroll is that there will only be 1 or 2 of them on most rosters. This is not an easy roster to build and I have no doubt that my MBBL career with them is going to be rough!

Milo · Post by **Milo** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 3:55 am

I think that ideally, this team should be roughly on par success-wise with Goblins and Halflings. That's what the fluff suggests, and I think it would be a bad idea to introduce a team with this much ST that was even moderately capable of winning games.

So, if an Ogre team, in capable hands, consistently wins more than half its' games, I'm going to look at reducing their effectiveness somewhat. Likewise, if an Ogre team consistently causes a lot of casualties, that would be another reason to tear them down a little bit.

Much like stunty teams, actually WINNING a game with the Ogres should be cause for celebration. Even not losing badly could be a huge moral victory.

I think the team we have right now is a good step towards that.

Milo

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 7:52 pm

While I agree with this it does worry me that the Ogre team may be significantly more capable of damaging teams than Halflings or Gobbos.

I don't want to encourage a can't win so may as well destroy the other team attitude in coaches with a team actually capable of fufilling the promise.

Anthony_TBBF · Post by **Anthony_TBBF** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 8:28 pm

I think that ideally, this team should be roughly on par success-wise with Goblins and Halflings. That's what the fluff suggests, and I think it would be a bad idea to introduce a team with this much ST that was even moderately capable of winning games.

Sorry if this has been mentioned already, I haven't followed the topic very closely.

One thing I liked about the Ogre list in BB Mag 6 was that you could only get 8 of them. I have this funny feeling that the list you guy came up with is still a bit too strong, did anyone think about using the old 12 max rosters that the old Big Guy teams used to have? I think that only being able to field up to 8 Orges might be a step in the right direction for balance with a team that has so much strength.

Just my 2 cents. 4$ US.

Sixpack595 · Post by **Sixpack595** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 7:36 pm

I really like the idea of limiting their numbers. I think only allowing 8 on the field or something would really even up the odds, but limiting their roster would be good too.

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 8:03 pm

From Galak's suggestion I'd change:

-No Big Guy on blockers (consistency is not a good reason to have it).
-Drop MB and gen access from blockers and their price to 90k - I like the increased roster flexibility
-Boost reroll cost to 80k or even 90k

The "Cockerel" would then be the following one:

Code: Select all

0-12  Ogre Blocker   5  5  1  9  Really Stupid, TSkull
            90k   S
0-4   Ogre Blitzer   5  5  2  9  Bonehead, Mighty Blow, TSkull, TTM
            120k   G/S
0-4   Goblin Catcher 6  2  3  7  Dodge, Stunty, Right Stuff        
             40k   A
80k Rerolls