What if Cyanide did to BloodBowl what GW did to Warhammer?

[dode74]

First, I have no idea how you came up with the d6 analogy.
Second, balance is about long-term performance, not titles.

[Dr. Von Richten]

You are right in terms of min/maxing. But the rules are supposed to be for 'perpetual' leagues. Regular leagues stil lrun into the CPOMB issue if you play for long enough. On line leagues just get there quicker.

Eventually, yes. But between people having and playing multiple teams and playing only twice a month, I've yet to see this to be an insurmountable issue in TT, even in an open league.

[harvestmouse]

I think you're being a little bit unfair. Because the issue doesn't concern you, and shouldn't concern those who play the game to a moderate level, we don't need to fix it?

I sense concern over the online part of the game taking over and damaging product that is the table top game. I hope that's the last thing anybody wants to see. However, I think it's time to accept how much of the market of BB is played with a mouse.

[straume]

I think you're being a little bit unfair. Because the issue doesn't concern you, and shouldn't concern those who play the game to a moderate level, we don't need to fix it?

I believe the disagreement is the premise that this is a real problem in a perpetual league.

Afaik a problem in "the box" does not equal problem in a scheduled perpetual league.

[Regash]

Away from the CPOMB-issue...

This thread is called "What if Cyanide did to BloodBowl what GW did to Warhammer?".

What I've seen and read until now, although I've to admit I didn't preorder and I'm not playing the "Beta", Cyanide did exactly to Blood Bowl what GW did to Warhammer.
I've yet to see or read a positive review of te game so far and the complaints are without end.
When Blood Bowl 2 was announced to be released with 8 teams, one of them not even being an official team, I started ranting about their rip-off tactics.
But never in my life could I have imagined that Cyanide could f*ck up BB2 so bad, when BB1 was at least a not perfect but still nice game.

Anyone here maybe have something nice to say about the "Beta"?
(Sorry, but two weeks prior to release is not called a beta, it's called a sneak peek!)

[dode74]

Erm, it's very pretty in-game. And... no, that's it.

[Moraiwe]

Anyone here maybe have something nice to say about the "Beta"?
(Sorry, but two weeks prior to release is not called a beta, it's called a sneak peek!)

Feels way too underdone to be called a sneak peek. If it gets released in two weeks, I can't see it being considered a wise move.

[straume]

Away from the CPOMB-issue...
I've yet to see or read a positive review of te game so far and the complaints are without end.

I guess this depends on where you read?

This is the only review Ive read so far and it is a positive one: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/tag/blood-bowl-ii/

Also: The comments on the Orca Cola-boards are mostly positive ones, actually. And that surprises me a lot.

As for internet rantings, I wouldn`t put too much emphasis on it. They come in several forms (often overlapping):

And my responses in (...) since I am one of those silly Fan Boys who play Blood Bowl in TT-tournaments, TT-leagues, Cyanide-leagues and on Fumbbl!

1) Waah! I have paid for a broken product 3 times all ready and I am not being suckered by Cyanide again! (I say: Yes, but the second and third payment was very cheap and the total amount is still very little compared to game time spent)
2) Waah! It is not CRP! (True, but still Blood Bowl and could be fun anyways)
3) Wahh! Cyanide divides the community with their stupid rules! (Perhaps, but most important they add people to the community.)
4) Waah! There is only a limited number of Blood Bowlers in the world and this is direct competition to my beloved Fumbbl! (No, this gets more players to the game. The alternative is a dead game, with elderly players)
5! Waah! The game has bugs! (True. So does all new games. Cyanide did put a lot of effort in removing the biggest and baddest bug from BB1 (Network sync error))
6) Waah! Why should I downsize from 23 races to 9! (This objection is a good one, but I like pretty things and I guess I am just a silly fan boy)
7) Waah! DLC is the Devil! (Well, yes, but this is how it works. Get more money out of those willing to pay more. You know, the silly fan boys.)
8 ) Waah! Cyanide does not care about us! (No. They want to sell a game. GW never cared either).

This is meant as jesting and I don`t mean to step on any toes. My point is that many of the objections to the game has not that much to do with an actual assessment of the game itself, but often more to do with wider Blood Bowling concerns and/or a general distrust to the company in question or the gaming industry in general.

[Regash]

I have to agree to most of your "Waah!"-points.
But I don't see Cyanide bring more people to Blood Bowl.

I'd rather say, a lot of people gave up in TT play entirely and if you want to play Blood Bowl, BB1 online is where you need to go, aside from tournaments.
I'm talking about your regular "Oh, let's play Blood Bowl now!" match.
Do I like to go online with all those minmaxers, liars, disconnecters, rip-offs and what not? No, I don't.

I actually feel like Cyanide has been and will continue to be the death of TT Blood Bowl.
That is why I said, yes, Cyanide did to BB what GW did to WH.

[Darkson]

One positive thing I will say for Cyanide BB is that it HAS brought people into the game. Yes, some might have played once or twicee many years ago but some have never played before Cyanide. My own tournament has had at least 3 people that have moved to TT direct from Cyanide.

[plasmoid]

Hi Dode,

First, I have no idea how you came up with the d6 analogy.

Well, 9 out of 25 teams is

roughly

1 in 3. Like 1-2 on a d6.
Get that 28 times in a row...

Second, balance is about long-term performance, not titles.

I know how the BBRC defined balance: 24 teams at 45% and 1 at 55% would be just fine.
I just think it was a bit of a narrow selection.
Cheers
Martin

[plasmoid]

Hi Dode,

Erm, it's very pretty in-game. And... no, that's it.

Uh oh. That does sound ominous
From streams it looks like everything works. So I'll take the guess that the AI is horrible. Even worse than before(?)
But multiplayer runs OK....

Am I close?
Cheers
Martin

[harvestmouse]

I think you're being a little bit unfair. Because the issue doesn't concern you, and shouldn't concern those who play the game to a moderate level, we don't need to fix it?

I believe the disagreement is the premise that this is a real problem in a perpetual league.

Afaik a problem in "the box" does not equal problem in a scheduled perpetual league.

I definitely agree with this, and highlighted it recently when BlackBox division was quoted as proof that Orcs being too weak (regarding the blitzer price change).

I also agree with most of your points. However, 4 is wrong (from a FUMBBL perspective). Numbers have halved at FUMBBL, since Cyanide came along. Admittedly I don't think it's all Cyanide, but internet gaming as a whole. The BOTOC's league died, so did France BB (I liked it!). So for diversity of online play, it has been detrimental.

Are there more players playing BB as a game? (Rather than just playing Cyanide as a computer game) I don't know. The advertising done by them for the hobby, can't be bad though.

[dode74]

Hi Dode,

Erm, it's very pretty in-game. And... no, that's it.

Uh oh. That does sound ominous
From streams it looks like everything works. So I'll take the guess that the AI is horrible. Even worse than before(?)
But multiplayer runs OK....

Am I close?
Cheers
Martin

UI issues, both in and out of game, aare one of the biggest complaints. Lack of individualplayer stats, no player levelling reskins (i.e. a legend looks like a rookie), difficulty telling some teams positionals apart and, the biggest one for me personally, so many skills aren't optional.

[koadah]

The BOTOC's league died, so did France BB (I liked it!). So for diversity of online play, it has been detrimental.

The BOTOCS league died mainly because Fumbbl went CRP.

I think you're being a little bit unfair. Because the issue doesn't concern you, and shouldn't concern those who play the game to a moderate level, we don't need to fix it?

I believe the disagreement is the premise that this is a real problem in a perpetual league.

Afaik a problem in "the box" does not equal problem in a scheduled perpetual league.

That will depend on how many games you can play. As has been said I play open round robin leagues not scheduled round robin. So yes, in a good season a team could play 12+ games in a month compared to maybe 4 in a month for
a scheduled round robin.

The old "we don't play enough games to see the problem" and "you could refuse to play those teams" are a bit weak.
But hey, I suppose it is all a matter taste. Some people like that kind of thing. I'll be looking to build a full monty CPOMB team in leagues that allow it.