One Turn Scorers redux...(PGFI)

[voyagers_uk]

I voted yes with some testing, in fact I spotted on Neo's site months ago and asked him about it then. It intrigued me because I would like to think that fate should also have a hand in all our games and trusting that ever harder dice roll to fate is something I feel the game should be about. A bit like having a punt on the £64,000 question on Millionaire when you haven't got a scooby, it is a 1 in 4 chance but heck it is ok as it is just a game and you started with nothing.

I appreciate that some coaches live and die by the stats of a roll, but I cannot think of an Orc or in some cases Dwarf coach thinking in those terms so I don't either. I may not win tournaments but if faced with a roll that I fell would happen in a game but is likely to fail, I may be more inclined to play in character. So I would say yes give it a test and then let's see what comes of it. I look forward to the day it comes in. I will also get around to looking at the kicking rules too.

Tom,
Do you have any game file zips featuring a lot of examples of the kicking rules in action that I could review?

[neoliminal]

i dunno... i think it's one of those ideas that i hate on paper but would love to have around when actually playing... just because no matter how much you hate getting scored on by 5 gfi's, you'll never forget how exciting that play was.... one of those 'twist my arm' kinda additions that i'd kvetch surprisingly little about in the end...

This was exactly the reaction of the most reluctant coach in our local league. He thought the idea was crap but now he's addicted to it.

[Deathwing]

I voted no, but I'd want to test it. I tend to gfi quite a lot when I'm playing slower teams, this change would effectively accentuate the lack of pace. Just an initial reaction.

[Acerak]

heck, for what it's worth, i'd just as soon make the second gfi square a 3+ or 4+ roll and still only allow 2 total squares....

This is a pretty good idea, IMO. The trick is to make Sprint appealing. If the rules stated that you could GFI two squares, at 2+ and 3+, but then Sprint added only a 4+, then only one-turn scorers would choose Sprint.

I do like the suggestion that Sprint be the "unlimited GFI" skill, though. That would add value to it, although it would open up one-turn scores with only one skill roll. They'd just be riskier. Explaining the game would become marginally more complicated - you could no longer say, "Each GFI square is 2 or better on a D6" - but that's marginal.

-Chet

[neoliminal]

I voted no, but I'd want to test it. I tend to gfi quite a lot when I'm playing slower teams, this change would effectively accentuate the lack of pace. Just an initial reaction.

It's a bit of a trade off. You might not go for it the second time for every player, but you will have certain players that will GFI three times. The net is a wash. This rule is certainly one you have to play with to get the feel of, however.

[sean newboy]

Actually i like the idea of making it a change to sprint.

[Lucien Swift]

i dunno... i can't see myself taking that version of sprint a lot, it's just a good way to get a skilled player hurt if it just adds a 50/50 fallover square before going even less likey... sprint loses appear altogether with them odds...

i think that the only way to keep sprint desireable is to let everyone pgi, and make sprint shift the difficulty back 1 with a 2+ min, so everyone would be 2/3/4/5/6... and sprinters are 2/2/3/4/5/6....

alternately, leave gfi as normal for everyone, let sprinters do pgi starting with a 3+ on the third square...

or something along those lines... you gotta feel like sprint really adds something that's "guaranteed" even if it isn't truly a guarantee, or else it feels like a skill that goes to waste, or at least a skill that does more harm than good, and it'll be a pretty infrequently slected skill....

[neoliminal]

In our league sprint gives you a one time +1 to GFI. So once per turn you can give yourself a +1. In most cases it doesn't even come up. (I have a catcher with both Sprint and Sure Feet.)

[Lucien Swift]

if it doesn't come up in most cases, then the skill isn't appealing...

also, if the effect is too close to sure feet, it's a redundant skill...

i'd have sprint alter the overall mechanics of gfi, not just give an easy reroll/bonus rut mod...

[Thadrin]

I like the idea of GFI replacing the Sprint skill (with GFIs being 2+/2+/3+/4+/5+/6/6/6 etc.).
My only worry is that that makes Bull Centaurs WAAAAAAAAAY speedy. Like THEY need help as it is.

Here's an alternative idea:
Introduce a new action: a player may declare a single player each turn is going to "Sprint". After his normal moves and GFIs he may then use the progressive GFIs. This action may be a blitz action (with the usual cost of an extra square of movement to throw the block).
At the end of the sprint the player should roll a D6. on a score of 1 the player has collapsed exhausted and should roll on the injury table for the effect.

[voyagers_uk]

I would rather see an automatic BH on the roll of 1, rather than giving the possibility of dying from going for a run

or maybe set a team gfi per turn limit of say 6-8 squares which can be split however the coach likes and all have to be rolled for with any usage of more than 3 square give cause for Thadrin's exhaustion roll.

[neoliminal]

Here's an alternative idea:
Introduce a new action: a player may declare a single player each turn is going to "Sprint". After his normal moves and GFIs he may then use the progressive GFIs. This action may be a blitz action (with the usual cost of an extra square of movement to throw the block).
At the end of the sprint the player should roll a D6. on a score of 1 the player has collapsed exhausted and should roll on the injury table for the effect.

That's an interesting concept. What if you could only GFI under certain situations... like a move action. The concept that there would be a new action called sprint might open things up a little bit.

Perhaps a sprint action wouldn't allow you to dodge (it's all about moving quickly).

Might be fun playing around with this concept.

[Lucien Swift]

ahh yes, yet another sudden realization that maybe 2e had it right all along... lets all get int e way-back machine and set the controls for 1989...

....once we stop laughing at our haircuts we sit down for a nice game of bloodbowl on the old astrogranite and what do we see looking over our players' stats, a sprint attribute.... now, how does that work? why, it's extra movement you can use so long as none of that movement is in any tackle zone squares... the reasoning, sprinting doesn't allow you to swerve and weave around defenders...

i think that i too like the idea of a sprint action, allowing extra squares, but only where those squares do not cross tacle zones... the trick is, does it take the existing gfi out of the game? i'd miss it, personally, but by the same token, i don't want to make every player capable of zooming accross the field...

perhaps, then, what we need is not a sprint action, but just a sprint class of movement... state that a player making a move or blitz action may sprint, gaining extra movement, but that movement may not include any squares where a dodge is required for the move.... i.e., a player may sprint into a blitz, as there's no dodge roll to enter the tz involved, but a runner can't move through a tz, because there'd be a dodge roll... this, whatever it is, replaces traditional gfi altogether...

the impact of this on one-turn scoring is profound.... a line of tz's on the goal line negates tehm entirely, ots becomes a sacrifice to an improved extra movement system, but i'd rather see the increased number of exciting sprinting plays than the ultra-rare, ultra-boring ots anyway...

that i like...

also, i would like to think some more on making failed gfi players receive either an automantic bh or ko instead of risking it all with a knock-down/armor roll.... i'm just plain sick and tired of people killing themselves... i wasn't aware a pulled hamstring could be fatal...

[mrinprophet]

I really like the idea that you can't sprint through tackle zones. Another idea I kinda like is that to sprint the movement must be in a straight line. The line can be north/south, east/west, or diagonal, but with no change of direction. Just a thought.

[neoliminal]

This seems like fodder for a new thread. Before we get too off track, why not try the rule as it stands and give me some feedback on it first?