Vampires

Anthony_TBBF · Post by **Anthony_TBBF** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 3:20 pm

this time i was making a point, you should try it sometime

I did. In case you missed it, coming off sounding like an a** doesn't really help the your problem one bit.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 5:32 pm

Anthony_TBBF wrote:
this time i was making a point, you should try it sometime
I did. In case you missed it, coming off sounding like an a** doesn't really help the your problem one bit.

it can. there are multiple ways to get results. i certainly got your attention

i stand by what i said. i have never been impressed with jervis johnson from the minute after 3rd ed. bb was released. and andy hall has done nothing to impress upon me that he has a clue was he's doing or talking about either, and i am rather annoyed about the little changes he made to the lrb in complete circumvention of the rules created for amending said document. so my overall opinion of him is less than positive as well.

if that offends or annoys you, i'm sorry; that was not my intent. but again i stand by what i said.

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 7:17 pm

Opinion is one thing, ways of expressing it are the issue. I consider your phrasing OTT and offensive.
Who got the game back in print? Who got new figures commissioned? Who got current rules downloadable for free? What about the formation of the NAF? The BBRC? Look at the state of the game today compared to 3 years ago. That is primarily down to the people you're attacking on a public forum.
Nice going.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 8:18 pm

Wes, while I couldn't agree more, your way of stating things...sucks.

Want a sure fire way to have everything you say dismissed as a rant. Stay on course. I say the same things more tenderly than you did and I'm labeled as a trouble maker.

Deathwing, I know that JJ has done alot for Blood Bowl but the bottome line is that GW created Fanatic and the new figs as a way of milking money from old games. Granted, some of what they have done has been terrific but IMHO the contributions from JJ in the last few years have done more harm than good. Some of you die hards might not see it that way because you still have leagues, can get the minis, and can attend the big tournies. Some of us however had 4th edition kill the little bit of Blood Bowl we had in our area. Then we were told that we had no idea what we were talking about when we logged into the Locker Room to complain. Not only by Jervis Johnson but by several members of the BBRC. So excuse me, if I don't see their mighty wisdom. These people couldn't even see the problems with 4th edition, don't understand that we want new figures without new rules and I'm pretty sure JJ and Andy don't even play the damn game.

So, NO, I don't really think that Wes is out of line for the spirit of his post.

Every time JJ, Andy, Chet, Neo or Milo gives me the old standard, "Try it! You'll like it!" I wanna puke.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 8:32 pm

Well, for what it's worth wesleytj, i agree with you. I've been saying for years that JJ and Andy have totally lost touch of the game and shouldn't be given any power over it anymore, lest they break it.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 8:37 pm

I think it boils down to them not playing it. If JJ was commisioner of a league do you really think he would bring in that Nurgle team or the ogres? NO! If he had to spend his time maintaining a league and keeping coaches happy those teams would look alot different.

And this whole mini for everyy rule and a rule for every mini thing is causing more problems than it's worth! This above all else tells me the true purpose of Fanatic. It's a marketing plan, pure and simple. Minis are the money maker and boneheads who don't understand gamers think we need a new rule or we won't buy the minis...and they are too scared to lose a little profit to try otherwise. I've heard the arguement that the goal of any company is to make money but I just don't agree. Most companies have mission statement that usually deals with customer satisfaction and a quality product. If GW has such a mission statement then I think they are betraying it. Example? The new ogre team! If I wanted to play the new ogre team I would need to lay out $90 for 6 ogres, then at least $30 for the remaining 2, then $18 for 2 booster packs and then another $7 for the remaining 2 goblins...for a grand total of $145 for one damn team! That is ridiculous! Let's compare these prices to another mini company of equal quality...
Reaper Miniatures offers a river troll comparable in size to a GW ogre. They go for 6.99 ea. X 8 is $55.92 + 2 orcish warrior 3 packs ($9.99) and 2 more orcs ($3.99 ea) comes to a grand total of $83.88 Now these reaper figs aren't necessarily BB worthy but they are comparable in size and quality. Why all the extra cash for the GW minis? Should a company that produces more miniatures be able to sell them cheaper? It's a rip off...unless theya re paying their artists alot of money. From what Phil said this doesn't seem to be the case. Where is all the exra money going?

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 9:09 pm

"The rule is too good to screw up over credit given. "

Actually... truth be told, were I even remotely serious, I would never be able to prove anything. Public forum, proof of identity, and that Blood Bowl, in all of its forms, is a GW property would all play against me.

I've been in intellectual property disputes with profs here at MSU, so I'm familiar with some of the rules and regulations, nothing more.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 9:13 pm

I'll get flamed all over hell for this but Cerv, I'd just kiss that rule goodbye. IF they do print it, they will either keep it the same and credit the BBRC as a whole, or tweak it slightly and name a BBRC member specifically. Just look at the way the tried to weasel credit for the TBB ogre team.

Post by **Dave** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 9:44 pm

Pariah wrote:Just look at the way the tried to weasel credit for the TBB ogre team.

No flames but I do think you see things little do dark now. I agree with most of your points in one way or another but think that, as my dear father would say it, you look at a glass and say it's half empty instead of half full.

At least the game has support and interest is defenitely growing. That is allways a good thing in the end, even for places where 4th ed has 'killed all interest in BB'

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 10:07 pm

Pariah wrote:I'll get flamed all over hell for this but Cerv, I'd just kiss that rule goodbye. IF they do print it, they will either keep it the same and credit the BBRC as a whole, or tweak it slightly and name a BBRC member specifically. Just look at the way the tried to weasel credit for the TBB ogre team.

Yeah, even Sigurd's injury rule wasn't named after Sigurd anymore as soon as it became official.

Post by **Thadrin** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 10:12 pm

I think that JJ and Andy do very much care about BB. I think that they are genuinely dedicated people, who do the best job they can.

I also think that they are in way over their heads with juggling a half dozen systems that GW have cast off (despite their being better than any of the WFB/40K stuff or even that damn LotR game, which is NO DAMN GOOD).

I think they both could do with running a league for a couple of years and getting back in touch with BB reality - something the stuff that BB mag has produced lately shows they aren't.

Its not going to happen though is it? Not while Fanatic is still treated as a way of milking a few pennies out of those of us who couldn't give a damn about the "big three" systems.

Lets not attack JJ and AH. They are the guys who're ressurecting this great game, and a couple of others. Let's attack the system that puts them in their no-win situation.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 10:15 pm

Sounds like they need to get a BB league started at GWHQ, but making sure they get a couple of "real world" players in, not just the "gentlemen" players that are(?) the GW staff.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 10:16 pm

So they have a job. Big deal. Does that keep them from playing in a Blood Bowl league during the evenings or week ends like we do?

They have no excuse. Either learn to play the game or appoint other people to make rules for it.

Anthony_TBBF · Post by **Anthony_TBBF** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:33 pm

I think that JJ and Andy do very much care about BB. I think that they are genuinely dedicated people, who do the best job they can.

I think that anyone who has actually talked to them about Blood Bowl will find that they are indeed very dedicated and interested in making Blood Bowl the best it can be. You may not agree with how they do things, fair enough. But I do hope that you spend some time with them and have a chat if you ever get the opportunity to talk to them in person at a con or whatever.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 12:15 am

Well, like I said, this is from my point of view.
My league was going strong until 4th edition. After that it just slowly died.
The whole time it's dying and coaches are complaining, I'm being told that my concerns and complaints are baseless crap and that my league is some oddball freak league because the rules work every where else. Well finally the truth comes out that my league was average and that 4th edition didn't work. So I was lied to simply because people in charge didn't want to admit their rules were crap.

So yeah, my glass is half empty. I don't think that 'any support is better than none' because when we had no support I had a league.