The Rotters team went too far!

[Skummy]

I think a savvy coach playing against them in a league will foul them a bit more than a regular chaos team. The lack of safety net can really hurt them when they have one of "those" games.

[horekim]

It seems that GW is not interested in making balanced teams anymore. What they care about is selling minis and by making the new teams better than the old ones they accomplish this. Let's face it, who's gonna bye a team that loses all the time. I know, I know, all teams have been accused of being overpowered, but I think that both Khemri, Lizardmen and Rotters are victims of GW's strategy.

Don't know if it's true, but I've heard that if you enter a GW store they have to offer you a game and the staff HAS to lose... That way they'll sell more minis - maybe it's just me, but I think there are certain similarities

[Ghost of Pariah]

Just when think I've heard every silly rumor about the GW stores!

I'd find it hard to belive if so many other things hadn't been proven true. lol

[ZanzerTem]

I don't know what is worse; GW making powerhouse teams just to make money, or gamers actually putting up with it.

[Ghost of Pariah]

Gamers putting up with it, by leaps and bounds! I can't stand watching people send GW the wrong message. I used to think that Citadel minis were the only quality minis out there (and for a time they were) but now there are so amny other minis that rival or surpass GW...and most do it for less money!

Heck Phil's Phigs are every bit as good as GW minis and he's all by himself!

[Artificial Penguin]

Full on YES to Pariah. The only figs by Citadel/GW that I prefer to say, Shadowforge or Reaper even, are some of the very obvious football figs (more in 2nd edition than the current lineup).

I was looking at my (3d edition) Chaos Dwarf team and realizing that ONLY the Hobgoblins even look like they belong on a Blood Bowl pitch, and that's only the two that have shoulder spikes and the helmet.

Lame...

[GalakStarscraper]

I know I shouldn't bother with the mood of this crowd ... but what the heck ... like Pariah I try not to let the crowd opinion stop me from talking:

Nurgle Beastman:
Stats = 5 points
Skills = Horns - Unable to use Apothecary = 0 points

Total = 5 points = 50k ... price for player is 60k ... so on a full roster 11 of your players will be overcosted by 10k ... -110k worth of overcosting

Nurgle Rotter:
Stats = 5 - 2 (MA 4) + 6 (ST 4) -2 (AG 2) + 1 (AV 9) = 8 points
Skills = Foul Appearance (3) + Regeneration (3) = 6 points

Total = 14 points = 120k ... price for player is 110k ... so on a full roster 4 of your player will be undercosted by 10k ... 40k worth of undercosting

Beast:
Stats = 5 - 2 (MA 4) + 12 (ST 6) - 4 (AG 2) + 1 (AV 9) = 12 points
Skills = Regen (3) + FA (3) + MB (2) + Tent (3) - RS (3) - Big Guy (1) + ability to create free Rotters from Deaths (1) = 8 points

Total = 20 points = 150k ... price for player is 140k ... so 10k undercosted.

So on a full roster you have 50k of undercosted players offset by 11 players 10k undercosted each since they cannot use the apothecary.

My thoughts are that the team is not grossly overpowered especially since you have to use the Beastman as ball handlers and if your best ball handlers get nailed (SI/Dead) he's gone without chance of saving him.

I personally don't see what all the hubbub is about ... but that just me.

Oh and before you toast back .... I did email the BBRC that I thought the Beast should have have the skills that it has but with a 4/5/1/9 Stat line and cost 130k (I'd even back 140k at this price). So I'm not 100% behind this roster, but other than this minor change that I'd make to the Beast to power him down a smidge, I see no problems with the roster.

Galak

[GalakStarscraper]

earned the rotter back FREE OF CHARGE because his Beast killed a goblin.

BTW, Masher, did you miss that the link I gave you said the opponent had to be HUMAN sized to get a free Rotter (ie not Stunty or a Big Guy). If your league is allowing free Rotters for killing any position, I'd disallow that in a heartbeat.

Galak

[ZanzerTem]

We are testing the Mag published rules (NOT something I support by any means), and it does not specify that the killed player has to be non-Stunty.

Galak, I like your just-posted stat-line a lot better. But, I disagree with the point system used. Frenzy is less useful on a player with STR 1 as opposed to a player with STR 5. The combination of skills that the Beast has warrants a heavy price tag. Also, your point system does not take into consideration the fact that it posesses a necro-like ability to resurrect players that it has killed.

Either way, all of these rosters need heavy playtesting. I would hate to see BloodBowl MUDflated by some greedy GW trolls

[Zombie]

You can't factor in no apoth and not the free players. The two cancel out.

[GalakStarscraper]

Yeah, but its not a free beastman which I agree would cancel out. Its a free Rotter and most teams are going to have 4 of these pretty soon so the benefit quickly gets lost whereas the Beastman will continue to suffer from beatdown over the life of the team. IE I don't agree that the Death by Beast gets Free Rotter = Loss of Apoth for Beastmen (especially since they are the ball handlers).

Look I'll be 100% honest, factor in the ability to create Rotters into the Beast's price and drop him to ST 5 and charge 140k still for him and I'd have ZERO problem with that change.

I think the based changed roster is fine. I'll readily agree that the beast might need some work.

Galak

[ZanzerTem]

I agree! Thats what this thread was about: Its a why-the-hell-is-the-Beast-so-damned-over-the-top thread.

Which I doubt will be answered.

Galak, you should playtest the "desired" Beast and the "Mag" Beast in PBeM......We are already playing with the "Mag" Beast and even the coach of the Rotters thinks its to powerful.

[GalakStarscraper]

Galak, you should playtest the "desired" Beast and the "Mag" Beast in PBeM......We are already playing with the "Mag" Beast and even the coach of the Rotters thinks its to powerful.

There is a team in the MBBL already doing so:

http://www.midgardbb.com/MBBL/Season2/C ... otters.htm

Galak

[Zombie]

Look I'll be 100% honest, factor in the ability to create Rotters into the Beast's price and drop him to ST 5 and charge 140k still for him and I'd have ZERO problem with that change.

That ability in itself is worth at least 220k, so figuring it in the beast's coast would bring him up to around 400k! I would expect the Beast to rack up at least two rotters before the team is full. That's very conservative, because like somebody else said, a good coach would start with a beast and no rotter and get all 4 rotters that way.

[GalakStarscraper]

Look I'll be 100% honest, factor in the ability to create Rotters into the Beast's price and drop him to ST 5 and charge 140k still for him and I'd have ZERO problem with that change.

That ability in itself is worth at least 220k, so figuring it in the beast's coast would bring him up to around 400k! I would expect the Beast to rack up at least two rotters before the team is full. That's very conservative, because like somebody else said, a good coach would start with a beast and no rotter and get all 4 rotters that way.

Yeah that's effecient. Let's see the odds of a Beast that has taken Piling On as he first skill getting a death against a Human Lineman with no skills assuming he always has an assist for 3 dice blocks.

83.3% chance of passing Bonehead
70% chance of a knock down
97.2% chance of AV break
27.8% chance of casualty
16.7% chance of death

2.6% chance of getting a free Nurgle Rotter player from a 3 dice Piling On Block from a Beast.

Put another way ... 1 in every 38 such blocks will yield a free Rotter.

Oh and if you factor in possible apothecary saves ... its 1 in every 229 blocks.

Yeah the ability is worth 220k ... give me a freaking break.

Galak