BB-Mag 5 Lots of fun stuff

Piepgrass · Post by **Piepgrass** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 8:41 am

Ball and Chain. Cost 10000 Races: Goblin

Chainsaw. Cost 30000. Races: Goblin, Chaos, Dwarf, CH.Dwarf Human, Orc

Blunderbuss Cost 20000 Races: Dwarf+ CH. Dwarf

Poison dagger. Cost 30000 Races: Skaven + Darkelf

Bombs Cost 20000 Races: Goblin Dwarf+Ch.Dwarf

Pogostick. Cost 10000 Races: Goblins

Deathroller Cost 80000 RAces: Dwarf.

Post by **Thadrin** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 10:32 am

YOU MEAN I CAN USE MY BARIK FARBLAST?????? COOL!

Would have liked Dwarfs to be allowed two weapons rather than just the one (I want a Bazooka and a Deathroller). Thats just the fluff and me being a bit selfish talking though. The "more liable to cheat" fluff is supported by the wider availability of toys.

Still not keen on SPPs for Weapon players. The TBBF rules seem pretty damned good to me - and they've been testing those for a while (ANthony - back me up here!). These seem a watered down version of those.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 11:06 am

I see Norse have been left out again

I want a berserk, chainsaw-wielding nutter as much as the next team.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 1:12 pm

MY biggest problem with secret weapons has always been the list...It still is.
That is a really bad list of weapons. The poison dagger should be available to anyone. It's the easiest to get away with and if they get spp's for using it then I can see a big problem in the future!

I think it's totally crappy that fouing has major mittens put on it but skaven and dark elf teams can essentially foul with that dagger with almost no penalty!! On top of that they get spp's for it now! Make it available to everyone or don't have such a lop sided weapon for team that don't need the help.

Also has anoyone addressed how these rules will work with god awful ally teams? I can see the unbalanced Pact team getting really bad with these.

Sushé Wakka · Post by **Sushé Wakka** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 5:05 pm

By the way, do the weapon rules include clarifications of combining weapons with skills/traits/Racial characteristics?
For example: Can you use sprint with a pogo sticker to get 5 (jorl!) Go for it squares? Can you use sure feet to reroll a failed go for it with a pogo stick? Is the fanatic movement decreased due to the ball and chain?
About SPP, I hope it is clarified that since the poisoned dagger and chainsaw attacks are not blocks, you may not earn SPP from casualties when using them. And, does your bombardier get a COMP if he's nut enough to acurrately pass to a teammate (as long as this one catches da bomb, of course)? I won't even ask if a bomb allows you to earn SPP from casualties, as a bomb is not a block.
Since the blunderbuss text reads like "on a 4+ the blast counts as an accurate throw", do you earn SPP for a succesfully caught accurate blast?
One last thing. Are the weapons linked to a position? I mean, only witch elves and gutter runners get a poison dagger? only Chaos Dwarf Blockers and Longbeards get a blunderbuss? only goblins in an orc team get the chainsaw? and so on.
Last thing. Am I the only one who thinks that the chainsaw is aviable for too many teams? It's the goblins' pride, it should be ONLY for goblins (Well, at least with this list you won't see zombies with chainsaws, which I found pretty unlikely). Secret weapons should be "stunty exclusive". This, paired with two big guys, would make them competitive teams (at last!).

Ohh, I almost forgot. Where's the Halfling cook cleaver?

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 5:21 pm

Sushé Wakka wrote:It's the goblins' pride, it should be ONLY for goblins (Well, at least with this list you won't see zombies with chainsaws, which I found pretty unlikely).

Why, it never used to be? Anyway, a skeleton holds the all-time record for having his head removed witha chainsaw, so the more teams the better.

Secret weapons should be "stunty exclusive".

Again, why? Fluff says secret weapons have been available to most teams, and check out the 2nd ed SW figures, not many "stunties" there.

And are you calling Dwarves Stunty? I see a Deathroller in your immediate future.

This, paired with two big guys, would make them competitive teams (at last!).

But that's the whole point of stunty teams, they'tr not meant to be competative, they are meant to be crap. the idea is if you can win witha stunty team you are either a bloody good coach or a lucky one.

I want my chainsaw.

Sushé Wakka · Post by **Sushé Wakka** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 6:06 pm

I don't think that fluff should be the reason behind a rule. That kind of rules rarely, if ever, become "balanced". I think rules must be created to cover a gap in the game mechanic, using fluff as inspiration if you want, but not using it as a justification.
I never thought that, game mechanic-wise, allowing too many teams to get too many weapons is a good idea. If we made chainsaws aviable for Agility teams that would mean they'd become much better at casualty-hunting, putting Strenght teams on a even higher disavantage against them. I know it is not the case, but the poisoned dagger IS only aviable for fast/agile (Skaven/Dark elves) teams!
Oh, and I believe that no self-respecting norse berserker would pick up a chainsaw. He'll just think "I can chop a head off the shoulders with my bare hands! What else do I need?"
Maybe I got a bit carried away in my last post, and I apologize for it (but I can't help it!-Halflings are SOO fun!).

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 6:18 pm

Well, I agree, Elves wouldn't use a chainsaw for fluff reasons (to uncouth!) and games mechanics (to easy for them), but if SW are limited to linemen only why shouldn't Norse and Amazons have access to it, they're no better than humans AG-wise, and, OK, they both have skills allowing them to stay on their feet easier if blocked, if they do fall over they're injured on a 5+, as compared to a 6+ for human linemen, which I think is a fair trade-off. I have no problem with dwarves and Undead having it (the undead will probably spend all drive trying to start the thing) so basically I think it should be accessable to all races whose linemen have AG3 or less.

(And i still want my chainsaw)

Sushé Wakka · Post by **Sushé Wakka** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 7:23 pm

I'm glad we agree. And I'm not saying that chainsaw-wielding amazons/norses could unbalance the game, it is just that I feel uncomfortable with the idea of "too many teams with too many weapons" (I can't explain it very well, but chainsaws look somewhat "out of place" to me if not in goblin hands). Also, I think that some Secret Weapons fit better in position players. For example, in Chaos Dwarf teams, the Chaos Dwarf Blockers are the people in charge to handle the blunderbusses, not those sneaky Hobgoblin slaves.
However, until the weapon rules become official and they're added to the LRB, I won't even be able to take a look at them, so why do I care?

And I would also like my Norse players to have a chainsaw if I didn't feel guilty.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 7:27 pm

Well, having started on 2nd ed., I've always thought of SW (and chainsaws in particular) as race-less, in fact I always thought the 3rd ed Gobbo with chainsaw looked wrong, as it should be on human size (and I'm including dwarves n this category) players.

Oh well, different people, different perspectives

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 9:44 pm

Damn, damn, damn...

I have a cool old Skeleton with a bomb and a wicked old Zombie with a dagger that need to play Blood Bowl.

Bad list, poorly thought out IMO. Still, I'd like to know what the answers to those other questions Sushé Wakka asked. I hated the everyone-has-a-secret weapon, thing but I like them so I'll accept it. Let's fix this list!

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 10:11 pm

I can see the good points here.

They needed to include the experimental teams in the list.

I'll be interested to see JKL's take on this.

Galak

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 10:15 pm

Undead having it (the undead will probably spend all drive trying to start the thing)

Only if they dint give it to a Ghoul or something, very nonfluff but wouldnt be the first time, a Wight tho would be in line. Both are just as good as a meat puppet, i mean human.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 10:55 pm

So someone with #5, who on each team can be given a SW? Just linemen (and lineman-like types ie Longbeards) or anyone from that team?

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 12:11 am

Can anybody who is going to Amsterdam can buy me one and i will give the money at the tourny?
Thx