Blood Bowl back at Warhammer World

[sann0638]

@sann0638

Six-X, would be my guess.

Best one so far Say it fast enough...

The only way is six-X, for those UK trash-TV viewers

[straume]

but after the first run I already realised, that the players, even with well skilled teams, rather play it safe relying on nothing else but the usual cage tactic.

Again, a long explanaition to clarify the meaning - this onedimensional gaming with a very conservative playstyle quickly lead to at least some of the league memers rethinking their playstyle.

Just wanted to comment on this. This somehow implies that the cage-tactic is superior, and the bash teams somehow are superior in a league setting. Sure, they will lose less players, but in no way win more matches.

I would recommend bbtactics (or reading playbooks at thenaf.net) to improve your elf-play, and simply show these win-oriented cage-playing Germans how to do it.

Also: Teams like Orcs/Dwarves are supposed to play conservative. They can`t outelf an elf. And it would be wrong to try to make them do so based on some moral "fun"-argument. Also as has been pointed out: Teams for fun and crazy play have been designed for exactly that purpose. Goblins is the perfect example. They can be awesome, but the flip side is that you will be losing more. Goblins too random to be fun? Perhaps try Slann? They too open up options for adventorous plays. This is part of the beauty of Blood Bowl. Elf-play vs cage play is balanced. And you have the extra flavor teams for more fun-oriented players.

And most important: What lunchmoney said. TT league-BB is for mates to meet up for a beer and a good time. If you are not having a good time, either the game or the crowd is wrong for you. There is no shame in this, this is how life works.

[DinoTitanedition]

@straume

the cage-tactic is superior

The cage IS superior. The difference between elf teams and bashier teams is simply, that a bash team tries to move the cage forward, as elf teams have the luxury wether to easyly form another cage at a different sport, or keep one or two receivers downfield and use the cage only for preperation to break out and hand over/pass the ball to a different player. Due to high movement a TD can rarely be prevailed (speaking of fresh teams, with increasing skills the balance changes, but I have explained the disadvantages of teams loosing being caught in a downward spiral in the same post you read).

Also as has been pointed out: Teams for fun and crazy play have been designed for exactly that purpose. Goblins is the perfect example.

I already replied to this:

I actually own and play more fun teams than "winning" teams, and I ususally don`t play them in a maximized constellation. My undead team for example was built, because I had parts left. So I had no special constellation in mind, when I did those. I do play ogres and goblins also and want to add an underworld team as well.

@straume

What lunchmoney said. TT league-BB is for mates to meet up for a beer and a good time. If you are not having a good time, either the game or the crowd is wrong for you. There is no shame in this, this is how life works.

And to that too:

That`s absolutely possible, but it`s not like I have much of a choice if I want to play the boardgameversion of the game. In Germany there isn`t as many players as in the UK and if there is, somehow everyone tries do his own thing. Don`t know if that`s a german habit, but I`m not denying it either

It is a luxury having a permanently running league of Blood Bowl, but in my area most of the people play a whole bunch of games, which all seem to be more interesting to them than BB. I am rather happy that, after moving from one city to another, I`ve found an ongoing league, but other than from the game I don`t know these folks.

While living in my former city Frankfurt, lots of players mostly played 40K, Warmachine, Bolt Action, X-Wing or Freebooters Fate. That constellation changes from time to time of course. The Blood Bowl players were mostly in time consuming jobs or had families. That was one of the reasons why the league was running rather inconsistently and came to an end after three seasons.

[straume]

@Dino.

I figured I should reread your initial post. You write:

"the core rules are pretty much perfect in my opinion, but past page 15[...] a lot of work has to be done to make this game better for a wider community "

My question is this: Which changes would you like to see?

And assuming the core rules are perfect, how would in your opinion any changes better the issue of win vs fun-orientation?

[Kafre es Ispurio]

@Dino.

I figured I should reread your initial post. You write:

"the core rules are pretty much perfect in my opinion, but past page 15[...] a lot of work has to be done to make this game better for a wider community "

My question is this: Which changes would you like to see?

And assuming the core rules are perfect, how would in your opinion any changes better the issue of win vs fun-orientation?

No range ruler for pass lengh calculation / interception.

[mawph]

@sann0638

Six-X, would be my guess.

Best one so far Say it fast enough...

The only way is six-X, for those UK trash-TV viewers

I'd argue for: "Sextuple-X".

While I can't say for certain, a reasonable amount of Warhammer stuff is based on real life. My assumption is that Bugmans brewery is a rip of Batemans Brewery, my old local in Lincolnshire. Batemans have a XB and a XXXB (triple-XB), so the assumption I've always made is that it was a rip of the Batemans brews and their multiple X's and hence should be Sextuple-X (or Hexatuple-X maybe?).

The other potential source would be Castlemain XXXX (referred to as four-X), which would lead to it being Six-X. I'd like to think that they picked a slightly closer to home reference point though

You could argue its a combination of the two, and hence could be any of the above also

[MattDakka]

Doesn`t it also have the apeteam? I read the roster and gotta say I do not like it, but that is because of the teamdescription. I merely describes the function of players and isn`t a real backgroundstory. To me it seems strongly ruleoriented and is lacking a little creativity. After all, even though originating as a board game, this game has it`s roots in a company`s philosophy of combining modelling, painting and playing aspects. At least in the days, when this game was found.

Yes, FUMBBL has an ape team called Simyin, but it's not allowed in the two main divisions.
It's allowed in private leagues only.

Cyanide works with a license, so as long as GW doesn`t say "no" it is official from my point of view, which makes Slann, Chaospact and Apes inofficial teams.

Slann, Chaos Pact and Underworld are official for BBRC (the guys who made the current CRP ruleset for BB) and for Jervis Johnson himself, while they are not official for GW only because they lacked a proper miniatures range.
Simyin (a.k.a. Apes of Wrath) are not official, they are just a community made roster.

[DinoTitanedition]

My question is this: Which changes would you like to see?

Well for one, the "Extra ReRoll"-results on the kick-off table ned to be replaced with something else. I have seen it pretty much too often now, that it is the last turn, you`ve got a RR left and get an extra one. What for? The same issue makes cheerleaders and assistant coaches obsolete. Yes, it CAN have an effect, but most of the time it doesn`t really, at least not for veteran players.

Fanfactor has to be priced higher - make it 20K per FF, so that underdog teams have a better chance of getting more inducements that could equalize the game a little bit. It would also have them keep their chances in the long run, when roster strengths tend to drift apart due to player losses. In our league we`ve lowered the spiraling expenses cap to 150 already because of that.

Personally I do like some changes of the narrowing the tier rules, mostly the weakening of the ClawPoMb combination. That combo was always to strong.

The inducements need an update as well. Extra RR out, something more interesting in. A magic item card for example. I feel that deck and the dirty tricks do equal out the chances way better.

Risk needs to be awarded better. For example: completions on throws of 5+ after modifications get you 2 SSP. That would make the passing game more attractive. I mean hell, intercepting it gives you 2 SSP, even though you`re throwing less dice. So for most teams the chance to intercept is higher than to successfully complete the pass (more roles needed, more chances of failing).

My assumption is that Bugmans brewery is a rip of Batemans Brewery, my old local in Lincolnshire. Batemans have a XB and a XXXB (triple-XB), so the assumption I've always made is that it was a rip of the Batemans brews and their multiple X's and hence should be Sextuple-X (or Hexatuple-X maybe?)

How cool is that!? Ah hell it`s a shame some backgroundinfo on BB just doesn`t reach foreign players, as probably many jokes are rooted in a british occasion. I can spot the one referred to the NFL, since I like American Football, but the other jokes are kind of well hidden.

Hm. Bugman`s Hex?

[Kaiowas]

KO table, funny you mention you dont like the more common results, theres been a fair few that hate the more game changing events in it! (Blitz eg)

I think you have to handle the rough with the smooth and have the common ones (6,7,8) have less of an effect on a game. Blitz could be nerfed a bit (limit it to simply a blitz action maybe) as its a serious gut punch as it is... consider it this way, your opponent has just scored, through maybe a little over aggressive set up, your backfield is no awash with opponents patiently waiting for the ball to drop to them and then score again,

your FF idea has some merit, underdogs dont get that much help and inducements are overpriced compared to having a player with the same ability (eg mercs or even stars) so either cheapen some of the inducements or make the FF give a bigger bump making the higher inducements more affordable.

the passing game is this game's failing, (and it by no means ruins it for me). I'm fairly sure its the one thing Jervis is disappointed by too. I get it, dwarfs wont ever be passing unless desperate but the game is set in such a way that passing becomes almost desperate measures for any winning oriented coach. Why chance failure? I know I dont unless I have to.

It just feels like its the pre forward pass American Football, and I enjoy it a tonne but it would be lovely to have some reason to pass other than desperation.

SPP rewards is an iffy improvement for longer passes. Makes it more complicated to track and at the end of it all wouldn't affect tournament play and may not even affect league play that much.

i'd love to find a genius way to get more passes and more interceptions and if I won the lottery I'd probably buy the license and hire some folk to do so but until then I'll make do with TT and Fumbbl have to offer

[Darkson]

your FF idea has some merit, underdogs dont get that much help and inducements are overpriced compared to having a player with the same ability (eg mercs or even stars) so either cheapen some of the inducements or make the FF give a bigger bump making the higher inducements more affordable.

All by design. The Underdog, by design, is meant to have an approx 1/3 chance of winning a game, and all the data that has come back supports that figure, so why make them cheaper. If anything, the data shows that inducements are to affective at high levels.

I disagree with his FF idea - it's something that affects your TV that you have no control over (apart from deliberately losing games) - I'd hate for it to become even more of a millstone around a successful coaches neck.

[frogboy]

6X is good, thanks

[Kaiowas]

your FF idea has some merit, underdogs dont get that much help and inducements are overpriced compared to having a player with the same ability (eg mercs or even stars) so either cheapen some of the inducements or make the FF give a bigger bump making the higher inducements more affordable.

All by design. The Underdog, by design, is meant to have an approx 1/3 chance of winning a game, and all the data that has come back supports that figure, so why make them cheaper. If anything, the data shows that inducements are to affective at high levels.

I disagree with his FF idea - it's something that affects your TV that you have no control over (apart from deliberately losing games) - I'd hate for it to become even more of a millstone around a successful coaches neck.

I get that (millstone bit), and obviously under dog shouldnt be on a par but I suppose the game in league leans more and more heavily to the team who win big and stay uninjured early as opposed to a team who joins late or lost a few players in the early running. A loss is ok, a loss with minimal spp and next to no cash to replace any dead/injured is a step backwards.

Thats why I've enjoyed Fumbbl more and open league formats for casual playing. If I get smashed, I'm not forced by fixtures to play up 400TV in a match I have to be competitive in (and cant just take more wandering apos as they wont help me as much as I'd want a chance to win) and get smashed again while I get my MNGs back

Its a minor enough gripe and I know a lot of leagues find ways to bring teams up to speed for new players or offer targeted MVPs/extra MVPs

[Glowworm]

Probably going to this event....

[frogboy]

Probably going to this event....

It dose sound like fun, I'd be up for it too. Pick m up on the way

[Glowworm]

Probably going to this event....

It dose sound like fun, I'd be up for it too. Pick m up on the way

ROADTRIP!!