I hate aging!

[wesleytj]

wesley they can get too big, like i posted earlier there is a team in fumbbl with a tr of currently 420. The cap was meant to be just around the 300 mark. The only thing fumbbl isn't currently using is the handicap table, but that doesn't cut teams ratings down a great deal tbh.

wow really? what rules does fumbbl use? straight lrb - handicap table?

i find it really hard to beleive that a team could be that large using lrb winnings and ff rules. do people ever die in your league?

[Darkson]

Well, my 4 game Vamp team from MBBL has the following:-

0 EXP - 1 Player (bought after last game)
1 Exp - none
2 Exp - 5 players (2 of who have played all 4 games)
3 Exp - 5 players
4 Exp - 3 Players

[Grumbledook]

Yer fummbl is lrb - handicap table a few skills not implemented in javabowl.

those are multiblock, passblock and diving catch iirc

otherwise its straight up living rulebook tbh

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=teams ... er=9&nav=1

thats the teams listed in team ratings, he does have a lot of niggles though, has a habit of a lot of them turning up :/ It has been said it would be different if the handicap table is used but I am going to try and see if i can manage it with my chaos dwarfs as I havn't played any games where i would have given away a handicap roll

[wesleytj]

no i think you're right the handicap table doesn't matter much.

the fact that he has a bunch of niggles should help balance things tho...maybe it's not such a terrible thing.

[GalakStarscraper]

no i think you're right the handicap table doesn't matter much.

the fact that he has a bunch of niggles should help balance things tho...maybe it's not such a terrible thing.

But even if he's losing 3 guys a game due to niggles ... the TR 420 and a 50 game win record out of 60 matches all done with the LRB cash table and FF rules that you thought could stop this type of thing has to make you stop and wonder ... at least I hope it does and REMEMBER the FUMBBL leagues USES skill based aging and they still have a TR 420 team.

Everyone see different things in data. My job is to spend 10 hours everyday sifting through endless piles of numbers and make conclusions on the patterns. The pattern from FUMBBL in my opinion is that 1) aging is needed and 2) skill based aging doesn't work ... where we go from is hotly contested but that what I see.

Oh, the top 5 TRs in the FUMBBL currently Wes are:

420, 319, 272, 270, and 265

Galak

[Sixpack595]

Fouling is the best way to age players. Ageing doesnt work, and experience seems to be unpopular as well. Better to leave things alone than impliment some half assed system like the ageing rules we have now

[Ghost of Pariah]

I don't understand why basing it on skills "doesn't work". It's the skills and upgrades that make the players uberpowered! What else should it be based on? Oh, that's right a randomly generated event that needs to be tracked seperately by rolling a minumum (note to Darkson min...not max) of 16 dice at the end of a game. It's a system that you don't seem to think is working youself, although you seem loath to admit it. A poll in another thread showed a huge majority of players like to have games played with teams of 200 TR. Why have the ageing rules take effect before that? Why are we punishing the people with TR's of 140? Why not have a system that is fun? (Gonna keep saying that until you listen, Tom) Your system isn't fun. It sucks. It may "work" but it's depressing cuz all it does is the same thing the current system does; punish winners. The difference is your system punishes losers too! Unless you make something in the system that makes people want to roll the dice we will be having this discussion.

[Sixpack595]

Every reason for ageing or exp or anything like it revolves around one arguement: "Teams with TR 300 are out of hand." or something like that. I hate all the out of game mechanics to tone down big teams, but at least insure it hurts the better teams, not someones TR 110 team.

Why not just make a chart that says at TR 201-250 the highest rated player leaves due to free agency on a 2 on 2d6. TR 251-300 is on a 3 or less etc... you can tweak the numbers, but it gets the most broken players out of there, and won't hurt weaker teams.

A poll in another thread showed a huge majority of players like to have games played with teams of 200 TR. Why have the ageing rules take effect before that? Why are we punishing the people with TR's of 140? Why not have a system that is fun?

[Mestari]

Everyone see different things in data.

The pattern from FUMBBL in my opinion is that 1) aging is needed and 2) skill based aging doesn't work

Oh, the top 5 TRs in the FUMBBL currently Wes are:

420, 319, 272, 270, and 265

In my humble opinion, you're watching at that data too early and jumping into conclusions to support the EXP system.

Please remember what effect handicap would have against that particular team? Virus anyone? That team has been extremely lucky with skill rolls.

When I watch that team, my conclusion is that skill-based aging does work. Those players are somewhat crippled due to aging, but they are not completely useless (it's "aging", not "making the player utterly worthless"). The fact that the coach has refused to retire those players (a choice that should also exist - if aging makes the players acertainly so bad that they will be retired, what's the point?) should result in the team suffering in games because of the handicap they give out. Because they refuse to engage in TR-controlling activities (retiring players).

Honestly, I really can't see how you can use FUMBBLE teams as an example of how aging doesn't work as such a major element like the handicap table isn't being used. Every team with a TR over 100 points lower will take Virus as a handicap and disarm the team before the match starts! With the number of niggles they have the 200-300 TR teams should have no problems at all winning them. They would be forced to lower their TR in order to win games.

It all goes down to the fact that skill-based aging at least attacks the team when it gets better and thus may need some toning down. Either that or a combination of Cervidals and mine suggestions (getting a skill is not guaranteed and BH's can cause permanent injuries).

[Zombie]

Oh, the top 5 TRs in the FUMBBL currently Wes are:
420, 319, 272, 270, and 265

Honestly, I really can't see how you can use FUMBBLE teams as an example of how aging doesn't work as such a major element like the handicap table isn't being used. Every team with a TR over 100 points lower will take Virus as a handicap and disarm the team before the match starts! With the number of niggles they have the 200-300 TR teams should have no problems at all winning them. They would be forced to lower their TR in order to win games.

Exactly! And from Galak's own numbers, we can see that this is EVERY other team in the league. With handicaps present, this 420 TR team would be the most pathetic of the league. It could never start a game with more than 5 or 6 players (or whatever the number of players with no nigglings is), and that's when they're lucky enough to have no miss next. Every team, even a 100 TR halfling team, could easily beat them. If anything, this team shows that aging maybe works too well!

[Heiper]

I agree, with the Handicap table you see that the ageing does work in this league, and it works very well. Can't see Galak that this will support going away from skill based ageing when it works so well. With handicap in that league he would have retired players long ago and stayed on same TR as the others, maxing out at around 250-300.

[DoubleSkulls]

FUMBBL stats don't include handicap rolls - so high TR teams have less chance of getting dragged down and also there is less incentive to keep your TR low. Therefore you can't really use FUMBBL as a guide to whether or not ageing TR caps teams.

The handicap table is too extreme at the moment, and when the difference is over 100 - so the underdog gets to pick a result - it can be quite powerful.

[Grumbledook]

I fully agree with the fact about the handicap table and he has played down a lot. My chaos dwarfs are at 230ish atm and havn't played a single game where they would have given away a handicap roll. I am going to see if i can get them up to a silly team rating. Thats the only way valid results could be produced under the current system.

[Skummy]

Grumbledook: I have to disagree with you big time, here. Any coach with a TR of over 100 lower than these DE's would pick Virus, and take them down to a 9 man roster before the game started. I'd say that would be a powerful incentive to replace the Niggled players.

[High & Mighty]

But even if he's losing 3 guys a game due to niggles ... the TR 420 and a 50 game win record out of 60 matches all done with the LRB cash table and FF rules that you thought could stop this type of thing has to make you stop and wonder ...

But that's really the point, isn't it? The LRB caps on FF and money hit teams that don't win harder than they do teams that win. He's winning 83% of his games which with TD and CAS mods on the FF, means his FF has increased steadily. That in turn, combined with the fact that he's playing high FFed opponents means he can get a gate high enough to compensate for the reduction from his TR(so a 0 to -2 mod), and a +1 on those winnings from the win itself.

He's not retiring anyone so those SPPs just keep racking up and his TR keeps going up. Unless he retires people or they die, his TR stays high. The idea with the LRB would be that coaches would be "persuaded" into voluntary retirement. If you don't bend to that "persuasion" (and taking away the handicap table helps that) and you're a good enough coach and you have other high FF competition to chose from, you can afford to do that.