BB Mag #6

[Ghost of Pariah]

I think most of the BBRC are in the unfortunate position of knowing what JJ will (and more importantly will not) accept on an Ogre team and having to break that news to the rest of us whether we like it or not.

Hey wait! I thought JJ didn't want "yes men". Shouldn't they then be telling JJ what WE will and won't accept on an ogre team?


Yeah, I though so.

[Munkey]

Hey wait! I thought JJ didn't want "yes men". Shouldn't they then be telling JJ what WE will and won't accept on an ogre team?


Yeah, I though so.

Yes, but apparently what he says and what he does are two different things.

And like it or not JJ is the 800lb Gorrilla of the BB world.

Perhaps we could just hijack the rules with an official TBB list of rules ammendments. We'd have to agree on things first though and i'm guessing the site would be a lot quieter if we did that a lot of the time

[khorneskulls]

all the battle reports and that kinda thing are totaly rigged.... if u havnt notced, the new army/team/warband ALWHIES wins. no exceptions.

[sean newboy]

If u pay more attention u notice that the winners/new armies general is an old hat at that army and the opponent is always someone who played armies other than the one they are playing in that battle. But then how many critical mail do they ever have on the mail page, not to mention most of them are something they can reply with a "buy this soon".

[Mestari]

But this is not the main point of the discussion - we shall see how it ends up (probably with the mag version becoming official...).

Pariah:
The reason I'm not getting any "shit" from saying the comment above, is perhaps because it was a joke. I'm currently quite hopeful that either Galaks', mine or some variation of those teams will eventually replace the Mag team.

I also believe that the BBRC is doing excellent job as it stands. It's a pity that the non-Fanatic members have no control over the BBMag articles.
And I perfectly understand why they do not want to instantly jump to every perkeleen web-forum there is after Mags are published to shout out that "we don't agree with this ruling", "*I* had nothing to do with this - 'twas JJ!", "JJ sucks!" etc.
They're a committee. It makes 100% more sense to hold your horses and not to attack other committee members publicly. Well, they could perhaps satisfy you, Pariah, if they openly did that, but it wouldn't really help the committee to discuss and develop things.

And every BBRC member that I've had the pleasure to communicate with over private e-mail has been extremely open to suggestions and feedback. Yes, sometimes they say no to something, but I don't expect that I could dictate anything, just suggest.

[Ghost of Pariah]

Once again, that's not what I expect them to do.
If they don't support it then why do they endorse it?
Why say anything? I never cursed the BBRC for the Mag team! I know who made it and I said so.My question is why do they endorse it if they don't like ? What is wrong with not saying anything if they don't wnat to cause a rift?


...OR HEAVEN FORBID ASKING US HOW TO FIX IT?

How about when somebody (me ) says, "I think that sucks and we deserve better!" they say, "What would you like to see?" Instead of, "Shut up, flower of an undescript sort!

Case in point. I made off hand remark to Galak about playing a Nurgle team. Chet flips on me and turns it into (again) why I hate the BBRC. (which I don't) Eventually, after insulting me, he asks me how I would change the roster. I wrote a fairly long email explaining just that. What was his reaction? I don't know. He never bothered to answer. Awhile back Neo was looking for ogre suggestions. I sent him the TBB roster. What did he think? I don't know, he never looked at it. Yet both of them will come here in the future and, once again, call me a trouble making nut case with no brains.

[Mirascael]

Yet both of them will come here in the future and, once again, call me a trouble making nut case with no brains.

It's your avatar. Atogs aren't that charming to look at.
Perhaps you should try a more appealing avatar. Then they're gonna love you, maybe.

[Milo]

Yet both of them will come here in the future and, once again, call me a trouble making nut case with no brains.

I don't think you're stupid -- I believe you're wrong, but nothing you have done leads me to believe you're not an intelligent person. I don't think you're insane, either. I can't speak to what other BBRC members think, of course. I have felt a serious hostile undercurrent from you from the second I set foot on this forum, however, and I've found that nothing I can do seems to change that. I have apologized to you on another post, and have resolved to not make any further insults towards you, publicly or privately.

But I won't be your yes man either.

Milo

[GalakStarscraper]

I like Pariah, and I've talked to him privately a lot.

However, I will say this Eric. You do tend to go to Def Con 2 pretty darn quickly.

You offer intelligent debate, but usually with a sledgehammer and short sword. Its one definite way to get your point across.

Galak

[Ghost of Pariah]

See, the "hostile undercurrent" may have come from the fact that you introduced yourself to me by telling me how unfathomable unnappreciative I am and basically calling me a spoiled brat. Simply becasue I didn't like a certain rule and had the nerve to question the almighty JJ. Could that be why?

Yeah, I jump up when a BBRC member comes into a thread where we are discussing our disappointment. Mostly becasue the first person they go after is me. This isn't new to this board. I remember a BBRC member deleting my threads after calling me names in another forum.

Bottomline, I don't hate the BBRC. I don't have a problem with what they do rules-wise because they do that for free. There have been several time I have gotten behind BBRC created rules. (Neo's Weather/Stadium rules for example). What I dislike is the total lack of respect that some members show anyone who thinks that lately Andy and JJ are phoning it in.

So if Mestari is right and you don't question the current teams becasue you don't want to insult JJ or Andy then why do you defend them? Why not read what the rest of us think and stay silent? If you aren't a "yes-man" then why defend, nay ENDORSE!, crap?

Better question...Why did you hop into the Ogre thread BEFORE the magazine was released and try to steer us towards the Mag6 version? You said that you wouldn't allow that version in your league; so why would you want us to make ours like the one you don''t like?

[GalakStarscraper]

Better question...Why did you hop into the Ogre thread BEFORE the magazine was released and try to steer us towards the Mag6 version? You said that you wouldn't allow that version in your league; so why would you want us to make ours like the one you don''t like?

Beating the dead horse won't get you finish line.

Galak

Translation: yes, I agree that Milo posted some comments that tried to steer you all to a BB Mag #6 version that is universally (if 98% counts as univeral) thought of a junk and so badly broken as to be virtually an outrage to have seen the light of day. However, he also quickly helped try and work with you to get a roster that could get a majority vote in the BBRC that wasn't broken. .... bottom line beating up on Milo for a previous past trangression is to ignore his current contribution and I don't hold grudges and usually recommed that others don't either (forgiveness and the future I prefer or the Book of Grudges and the past).

Milo apologized for past comments and helped work with you on a new roster Pariah, if you want to nail him to the cross for early things that ignore the present (wording intended for Pariah) take it to PM please as it is not something I want to or I think many others here to participate in or read between the two of you.

Galak

[Ghost of Pariah]

What I'm mad about is his earlier story about he came to be involved in the team and the fact that he is attacking me because I said what version I think will be official.

His version of the events were pure fiction and since he decided to yank on Pariah's tail, because I offered my agreeance to someone else, I'm giving him the horns and asking him a question he can't answer.

I claimed that I thought Mag6 version would be official or that Chet or some other BBRC member would take credit and, lo and behold, Milo is telling us that he was in on the team from the beginning, read the whole thread, and was "discussing" it with me. When the real version of what happened was that he tried to get us to go with a Mag6 version that he says is broken, didn't bother to read that we knew what the new team would be like, and only got involved because I called him out when he said i don't do anything.

If he would have simply gotten involved I would have been fine. But he tried to come in here, attack me for my opinions, take credit for something he had no positive part in, and say that he was there all the time and that I won't tolerate.

[Ghost of Pariah]

To be fair, Pariah, I expressed reservations about the 4ST Ogre Linemen well before you offered it to the BBRC.

To whom? You didn't post it or send it to Me, Galak, or anyone else working on that thread, as far as I know. And no one in the BBRC acknowledge the presense of the team when i emailed it to them. Not until Galak showed it to them.

I was on that thread early in its development, but I didn't want to stomp on your new idea just because I didn't like it.

But you like it now becasue of one small change? Why din't you just say you would support the team if we made one small change? As you can see, when you did say that, we "worked with you".

That said, your team was in development while the BBMag 6 team was already preparing for print. I was aware of that, and aware how different your version was, but it's generally accepted that the BBRC members shouldn't talk about stuff until it's actually printed if possible.

Like I said, if you had read the thread we all new what it was going to be and thought it sucked. Right in my first post I said so. Did you read it?

Once it hit print, I joined the discussion to try to find a compromise.

No, you joined shortly before hand and tried to steer us towards the Mag version. I saw it and so did others. We ignored you becasue we saw what you were doing. So don't come on here and slam me because I think that the BBRC will take credit where none is due.

I have felt a serious hostile undercurrent from you from the second I set foot on this forum, however, and I've found that nothing I can do seems to change that.

Well, taking undue credit away from Me, Thadrin, Ithilikir, Galak, Darkson, and loads of others is not the way to get on my good side. Nor is slamming me because I predicted you would. Neither is slamming me for saying that I think JJ's teams are crap. They are crap! You may not be able to use the word "crap" but I can. I am free to come here and say in an undeniable way that I feel JJ has lost his touch and I should be able to do it without you telling me that I am somehow not a true Blood bowl fan or that i don't appreciate all that he has done. You want to get on my good side? How about, when I say a team sucks, you say: "why", I'll say why, you take out a piece of paper and write it down. Then ask me what I would do differently and write that down too. Nowhere in there did I say: "tell me how I am unnappreciative", "tell me your opinions are better than mine", tell me I'm wrong" or "throw mud at me"
Now I'm not saying that you should write down what i say and take it to Jervis to be made law. I'm saying listen to the thread and go to JJ with what we think instead of listening to JJ and coming to us with it. I thought that's what you guys were supposed to do anyway! I should be allowed to express dissatisfaction and have it mean something, even if it's just my small vote. You totally trample on that when you throw mud and cause 20 page abouts "why Pariah hates us". I'm sure it also stops alot of others from saying they are dissatisfied too! Hell, why would anyone wnat to come to you, Chet or Neo and say that you think a new team sucks?! My God, why would anyone wnat this treatment? I can't even express an opinion/prediction without you jumping all over my shit!! Now, just to let you know, I didn't know you were BBRC until until you spazzed on me for the first time. (Contrary to poular belief I don't keep tabs on you guys) You started this mess. You, like the others, are unable to take criticism and hold grudges. But it really doesn't matter now because you made it personal and that is something that will take awhile to fix. I'm not gonna warm up to the BBRC until I see them communicate with the community in way that let's those who are not satissfied express opinions without fear of character assassination. Now, you can say that you aren't going to insult me anymore but you have already when you misrepresent your contribution in the ogre team.

I'm glad we have some support for the team on the BBRC side but when you come on this board and act like you were there from the ground floor it pisses me off. Alot of us worked hard on that roster and spent our own personal time playtesting it. You got involved because you were railing me in another thread about not contributing and I called you on it.

Like I said, I'm glad you and Chet are on board, I'm happy that you will look at the MBBL test data, I'm pleased as punch that the BBRC doesn't lie the MAG Ogres but I still feel that what i said to mestari is true. I've seen no evidence otherwise.