safe throw

[wesleytj]

I think it is too good!
You spend 3 skills to build a really good pass blocker, and then your opponent picks safe throw and you look like a fool.

We had safe throw at 4+ for a whole year (600 games or so), and then changed it to 3+. 3+ is perfect. It is pretty reliable, but it can fail, even when backed up by a reroll.

Martin

passblock isn't about interceptions generally. it's about putting tackle zones on the thrower and catcher, about forcing the pass to go where you want it to, about making it tougher for the player who threw the pass to do something with it afterwards.

don't change safe throw, it's not broken, as evidenced by the fact that not too many people take it.

[Dragoonkin]

I think nobody takes it because about 90% of the passing I ever see is handoff-range 2+ 2+ "passes".

I swear the only teams who make REAL passes are non-Elves. Probably because it's the only way they can get the ball any real distance quickly.

[DoubleSkulls]

I think nobody takes it because about 90% of the passing I ever see is handoff-range 2+ 2+ "passes".

I swear the only teams who make REAL passes are non-Elves. Probably because it's the only way they can get the ball any real distance quickly.

Are you playing with a lot of rookie teams? If so its not too surprising as the odds of failure are quite high, even on a short pass for an AG3 thrower.

Once you've developed throwers then the odds improve a lot and more experienced throwers ought to be making longer passes more often.

[Old Man Draco]

Without safe throw, an interception occurs once in every six passes (assuming you pass over an opposition player) even against an average AG3 team.

This is simply not realistic! As my Woodies hurl another long bomb over the LOS, you wouldn't expect their blockers to catch it once in every six times.

Interceptions are TOO COMMON already, and deter many teams from playing a passing game. Safe throw merely counters that.

I would say that a player standing next to a catcher should have a fair chance to intercept the ball. It sounds realistic to me that players standing next to the receiving end of a pace are not just looking at the crowd or counting daisys (or is it daisies)!!! With safe throw you hardly get any chance at all. The safe throw guy has to throw a 1 and you have to throw a 6 to get an interception. What odds are those?

[Old Man Draco]

[/quote]

passblock isn't about interceptions generally. it's about putting tackle zones on the thrower and catcher, about forcing the pass to go where you want it to, about making it tougher for the player who threw the pass to do something with it afterwards.

don't change safe throw, it's not broken, as evidenced by the fact that not too many people take it.[/quote]

but with an agilty 5 player you do get a 50% chance of intercepting a pass if you can get him free in the line of the pass. Even beteer than that with the catch skill!

[DoubleSkulls]

but with an agilty 5 player you do get a 50% chance of intercepting a pass if you can get him free in the line of the pass. Even beteer than that with the catch skill!

Assuming he has Pass Block and Catch I'd either ensure I didn't pass anywhere near him (so PB controls the passing lanes) or just flatten him with a blitz (and as he's still waiting for block & dodge it may just work )

[wesleytj]

With safe throw you hardly get any chance at all. The safe throw guy has to throw a 1 and you have to throw a 6 to get an interception. What odds are those?

about 1 in 36 by my math...and that's plenty. interceptions are rare, but when they do happen they go a VERY long way to deciding the game. I know I have never lost a game in which I got one...

anybody who's played bb long enough knows that 1 in 36 is a lot more often than you want it to be. Just ask my elven throwers with sure hands.

[wesleytj]

but with an agilty 5 player you do get a 50% chance of intercepting a pass if you can get him free in the line of the pass. Even beteer than that with the catch skill!

i know...i actually had an ag6 elf with passblock and catch. 3+ with a reroll. you want to know how many interceptions she got? 4. you know why it wasn't a LOT more? because nobody ever threw the ball anywhere near her. 8268 catch dodge passblock leap pro (wood elf catcher with -ma)

that's what a lot of people don't seem to get, and that was the point of my post you quoted. those odds you quote only tell part of the picture... because they only tell what your chances of an int are if your opponent is actually crazy enough to try throwing there despite your uber-interceptor.

I've had a mummy with 3 interceptions, almost as much as that WE catcher...you know why? nobody's afraid to throw over a mummy...I mean sheesh they're AG1. Yeah, but a mummy in 5tz's has just as much chance at an int as anybody who's ag3 without catch. To be fair, I should mention the mummy with 3 ints had pro, and that helped him get one of them, but my point is still the same.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is what I said originally: passblock isn't about interceptions. It's about making people not throw the ball where you don't want them to, guiding your opponent into your carefully laid ambushes, etc etc etc.

[Old Man Draco]

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is what I said originally: passblock isn't about interceptions. It's about making people not throw the ball where you don't want them to, guiding your opponent into your carefully laid ambushes, etc etc etc.

Great tactic. I'll try and remember that. Most teams I play against don't use pass block. Should be a great skill combined with foul appearance!

[MixX]

Uh-oh, this is going to get me in trouble with a lot of you guys out there, but here it comes: I really don't think the passing game should be made any harder than it is already.. I mean, yes elves can score easily, etc, but losing 3-1 doesn't influence the opponent nearly as much as the 5 casualties he caused in return.. I mean, the weak teams NEED that edge, since they are rarely all ready for a match (mine is hardly ever, despite the fact that my opponents VERY rarely gets more than one block per turn = his blitz). And Interceptions are, if not TOO common, then at least common enough already! I will join the "Coaches against AG1 players intercepting" club!! (no, I don't think there's any such thing, but there should be.. I can't really picture a Mummy leaping high into the air to snatch a perfectly aimed pass... which is what the safe throw is all about: you are not only accurate, you know how to pass really high, so that opposing players can't get to the ball. It's fine as it is!

[Mestari]

I generally dislike the 2+ or 4+ tendency of GW rules, and prefer 3+ instead for skills like safe throw. However, I find myself agreeing with the fact that the skill isn't taken too often, so there may not be a point in making it a 3+.

passblock isn't about interceptions generally. it's about putting tackle zones on the thrower and catcher, about forcing the pass to go where you want it to, about making it tougher for the player who threw the pass to do something with it afterwards.

This depends completely on the passblocker himself. If the pass blocker is not an elf, this is true. If he's an elf(or GR), then pass block suddenly is all about interceptions. Especially if he's AG5 with Catch (VLL helps too if he's a GR)...
And it's true that such players don't get a chance to pass block too often. But that's ok, the fact that my pass blocker can close a certain area from passing completely forces the opposing team to play the game my way. Or be turned over by an interception.

[Old Man Draco]

Yep you're in trouble

I will join the "Coaches against AG1 players intercepting" club!!

Just look at it form the orther side. Here I am, an AG 5 player getting all frustrated cause I actually don't even need to bother trying to intercept, cause I know VERY VERY likely I wo'n't be able to.
This is not just trying to make life hard on Elves, it's making it more easy on the return side as well!

[Circular_Logic]

So lets face it:
This problem has to be solved from two sides -> with 2 rules.

1)
A natural 6 is NOT a success, if the targetnumber would be 8 or more.
In this way a mummy can NOT intercept without an AG-increase nor someone involved in the LoS-brawl, as even elves have to roll 8 or more when they have 3+ TZ on them.
That would be a good general rule countering alot of "strange" situations.

2)
Set safe-throw-TN to 4+.
In this way a coach using a long-passing game has to clear the passing lanes or put TZ on those interceptors or take the risks of getting intercepted.

Perhaps passblock then becomes uber, but when you rule, that a player cannot use his dodge-skill during passblockmove AND/OR all dodges suffer a -1 on the roll (the player has to keep at least one eye on the ball), then you could even tie those elves down.

[Grumbledook]

throwers with safe throw are very good at throwing the ball to avoid interceptions, its meant ot be hard to intercept them no matter how good you are at intercepting

those high ag players who are good at intercepting will still get interceptions off other players who end up throwing it

i had a game with my skaven where i had to pass with my ag4 linerat instead of the thrower and he got intercepted

i think interceptions occur just about fine at the moment i see no reason for it to change

[gutterboy]

If I remember rightly, it used to be that you couldn't intercept on the middle portions of a long throw or long bomb (as determined by the sections on the range ruler).

I think that rule should be reintroduced, if only because it makes complete sense.