Crazy suggested Rewrite for the Amazons

[Corvidius]

I think throwing amazons is a bit much...

I think amazons ignoring Tackle is a bit much, particularly for 10k. That's just obscene. And it's important to bear in mind that Garions rules are just that, they're a couple of varient rulesets.

[garion]

I think throwing amazons is a bit much...

I think amazons ignoring Tackle is a bit much, particularly for 10k. That's just obscene. And it's important to bear in mind that Garions rules are just that, they're a couple of varient rulesets.

I think you missunderstand, or maybe I do, Im not sure :s Chris was meaning litterally throwing amazons is a bit much, because that daft roster on the page before had all the amazons with right stuff

Mine are built as a throwing team, as in passing the ball. The reason for this is -
-So they have a game plan against Dwarves or Chaos Dwarves.
-Because Norse are the bash humans, Humans are the versatile humans, and now with my change zons are the passing humans.

but I also nerfed them short term so they arent so dull to play against early on and have a little more variety in their team.

[Shteve0]

How about:

0-16 linewomen 50k 6 3 3 7 dodge G
0-4 blitzer 90k 7 3 3 7 block, dodge GS
0-2 hunter 90k 7 3 3 7 dodge, shadowing, wrestle GA
0-2 gatherer 90k 7 3 3 7 dodge, pass, catch GAP
Rerolls 50k

Too powerful?

[koadah]

How about:

0-16 linewomen 50k 6 3 3 7 dodge G
0-4 blitzer 90k 7 3 3 7 block, dodge GS
0-2 hunter 90k 7 3 3 7 dodge, shadowing, wrestle GA
0-2 gatherer 90k 7 3 3 7 dodge, pass, catch GAP
Rerolls 50k

Too powerful?

Yes.

[Shteve0]

lol.

0-16 linewomen 50k 6 3 3 7 dodge GA
0-4 blitzer 90k 6 3 3 7 dodge, wrestle GAS
0-2 hunter 80k 7 3 3 7 dodge, shadowing GA
0-2 gatherer 70k 6 3 3 7 dodge, sure hands GAP
Rerolls 50k

How about now?

[Chris]

Another alternative is to make them speedy humans - would this then be like skaven though?

0-12 Line 7/3/3/7 GA
0-4 Blitzer 7/3/3/7 Block, Dodge GAS
0-2 Catcher 8/2/3/7 Diving Catch, Dodge GA
0-2 Thrower 7/3/3/7 Pass, Sure Hands GAP

[Shteve0]

I posted this in another thread here, along with reasoning, but that thread's moved on into new space so I don't want to derail it. http://talkfantasyfootball.org/viewtopi ... &start=255

Basically I put forward this team:

0-16 Linewoman 6 3 3 7 Dodge GA 50k
0-2 Thrower 6 3 3 7 Dodge, Pass GPA 70k
0-4 Hunter 6 3 3 7 Dodge, Wrestle GA 80k
0-4 Blitzer 7 3 3 7 Dodge, GSA 80k
Re-rolls 50k

In the proposed NLBB rules they are suggesting a small nerf to the amazons in the short term (but not medium to long term, as I understand it) and, in the draft, block on the blitzer is replaced with wrestle, and the whole team gains A-access. I argue that this makes the catcher - at 20k extra for the catch skill over a linewoman, and no access advantage - redundant. I also think that wrestle on all of your S-access players is a bit of a disaster since it will seriously hinder both development and their play style. My suggestion is for the catchers to go completely, and the blitzers to lose block but gain a point of movement to make them the team's primary scorers, allowing them to skill up to block.

I also think this would introduce a unique development space for the team in that, with four starting wrestle but no block, the team style would need to evolve over time. They're now stronger on the line and arguably weaker running, but can get back there with a few wins. The A-access also allows for any hunter skill-ups, however unlikely, to lead to jump up, or diving tackle, while the Blitzers will inevitably take block as a first skill, then MB or guard as a second, pushing the development flow back but increasing their speed to help balance it out in the medium term. Though I think it's a weaker starting roster than the current line up, I think it retains the flavour but offers more interesting development potential.

What do you think?

[Juriel]

What do you think?

I think it still has the same problem of Zons being too good early on (when no-one has Block, you only take them down with a POW), and then too weak later.

Though I do like the idea of overall A access with AG3, enforcing a bashier approach than with elves... In practise, it'd still just lead to blodge spam.

They're a hard team to fix, without making them too close to humies.

[dode74]

I think it's an interesting start, but I also think that's a LOT of positionals.

Here's my initial idea. It's a manoeuvre-based defensive bash team. What does that mean? It's a team which isn't that good at taking the pain but uses the ability to move (as opposed to take hits) to form a defence.

Code: Select all

0-16 Linewoman 6337 Fend           GA   50k
0-2  Thrower   6337 Dodge Pass     GPA  60k
0-2  Blitzers  6337 Dodge Wrestle  GSA  80k
0-2  Blockers  5338 Dodge Grab     GS   80K 
0-2  Runners   7337 Dodge Sidestep GA   90k
RR 60k

Starting lineup for me would be 2 of the blitzers, blockers and runners, one thrower and 4 linewomen for 770k, with room for 3RR leaving 50k for either another linewoman or an apoth.
I don't think they would take many more linewoman casualties than they currently do as people will be unable to follow up, meaning that they get to move on their next turn, aren't always in TZs (which is what AV7 needs), and can really foul up a slow bash offence. The blitzers with wrestle will make great ballhawks, with the blockers adding a bit of solidity at the cost of pace along with the ability to move the opposition around - more manoeuvre-annoyance. Finally the runners give a bit more speed and add to the manoeuvre-annoyance factor with SS. I doubt the positionals will be at too much risk early on (same as now), but once tackle becomes more prevalent they will have needed to take a few more defensive skills (fend, SS) to stay the course.
You'll end up with blodge all over the place except the blitzers, but I can see value in taking frenzy/SS on a blitzer combined with block/guard on the blockers in order to control the sidelines. Linewomen will probably go blodge SS and be damned annoying at that point, and the runners can be either great safeties with Block/DT or be developed into something more offensive perhaps with catch/DC.
Reference costings, these are about right as per the guide from Galak, with 10k added to the blitzers to account for the combo of wrodge and the GAS access.
I still think they'd be a very good low TV team, but not as good as they are at the moment due to the loss of dodge on the linewomen - they'll actually fall over, although following up will be harder. I think they'd be a really nice mid-TV team (1400-1600) once a few players have skilled a tad. They'll still drop off at high TV due to the low AV, but I think that any team with a poor base stat does the same.

Thoughts? Too much? Would a team of 16 linewomen with 4RRs be too powerful at the start? Can you think of a better name than "blockers" for the grab players?

[Chris]

What would you like the zons to be?

I like the design whereby they are the 'pass' human team. We have the blocking one (Norse), we could have an all rounder/running team with the normal humans (once the catcher is fixed! or something else is done to improve the team!) and then we have Amazons for the passing. That definatively means diving catch on catchers.
I think speed is important for such a team but this is secondary.

Otherwise I see no way to improve the team without dropping dodge as the general skill and giving agility access for long term advancement.

Can anyone else think of a shot term/long term fix that means they keep dodge on everyone?

[Shteve0]

What do you think?

I think it still has the same problem of Zons being too good early on (when no-one has Block, you only take them down with a POW), and then too weak later.

Though I do like the idea of overall A access with AG3, enforcing a bashier approach than with elves... In practise, it'd still just lead to blodge spam.

I'm not convinced. I don't mind that they're hard to put down as they can rarely punch holes in a line, pass round it, jump over it or sprint away from most teams. Most teams have block pieces, several have block or block/tackle spam straight from the off. Amazons are crunchy, hardly quick, not particularly AGy and don't have much in the way of reroll skills... I like the dodge spam, as without it they're knackered. I don't buy this "fend is just as good" stuff, I just think you're looking at them all being buried before you get the chance to develop them.

By swapping out the blitzers' block for the hunters' wrestle, that's four peices that won't be blodgers right there. The S-access players lose starting block so must give up a skill choice to that to get anywhere. The wrestle is more useful against hardcore hitters than anyone else, and comes into its own in the mid-late development cycle, when block-MB-PO players are abounds...

What would you like the zons to be?

I like them as they are. I like that they're hard to flatten and allow you to play with a bit of gall - I like sticking one at the base of a dangerous player and hoping for the best while the others try and find a (usually slightly sketchy) way through the opponent line. While Norse are in theory easier to put down, they're more likely to put you down. Amazons are less likely to stick you on your backside but harder to squish.

Still, if pushed, would I be interested to see human catchers, as they are, swapped with amazon catchers? Sure. If we did, I'd be all up for saying that we make the blitzers wrestlers, and even take away their S access.

0-16 Linewoman 6 3 3 7 Dodge GA
0-2 Thrower 6 3 3 7 Dodge, Pass GPA
0-4 Catcher 8 2 3 7 Dodge, Catch GA
0-4 Blitzer 7 3 3 7 Wrestle, Dodge GA

Work for you?

[Juriel]

Still, if pushed, would I be interested to see human catchers, as they are, swapped with amazon catchers? Sure. If we did, I'd be all up for saying that we make the blitzers wrestlers, and even take away their S access.

Amazons are a bashy team. They could not do anything without S access (since AG3 doesn't dodge too good). Added Agility access I don't see making up for that, since they already have the best skill (though someone on the team should have ST3 + A access, to act as an elf-marker).

[DoubleSkulls]

Amazons are a bashy team.

Today they are. That doesn't mean they need to be.

[Glamdryn]

What about this:

0-16 Linewoman 6337 Dodge 50k G (normal)
0-4 Piranha Warrior 7337 Shadowing 60k GA (Piranha helmet and camo looking)
0-2 Eagle Warrior 7337 Dodge, Kick-Off Return, Pass Block, Sure Hands 110k GP (Eagle headdress)
0-2 Huntress 6438 Claw, Dauntless, Guard, Wild Animal 130k GS (Amazing Amazon on a Jaguar, more armored)

60k RRs

[dode74]

4 blodging shadowers all with MA7 will really hurt a slower team, especially with sidestep.

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