SPPs as experiance for facing bigger teams (WIP)

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:29 am

This is a Work In Progress, based on a few discussions with coaches in my home league. Not looking for it to be official or anything, or even an optional, just something that fits the game and philosophy behind the game for us better than the current system.

Some notes:
1. We're all a bunch of long-term gamers, and we don't agree with the current "simple is better" design brief that GW games are having - therefore, it can be complicated without being a downside (though it doesn't need to be complicated if it's not necessary).
2. This is used in conjunction with TV (LRB5), skills costs (LRB5) and Skills/Traits (LRB4 with some minor changes).
3. The only inducements we allow (in this ruleset) are Wandering Apos and Bloodweiser Babes, plus our own 3-tiered handicap table (similar, but not the same as, the cards).
4. We don't want to give underdog teams more money per game (the [LRB4] Gate table does that enough), nor do we want to give extra MVPs (under the current system).

So, the idea:

1. All SPPs levels (as written in LRB5) are multiplied by 10 (so a Touchdown is now 30SPPs, a Cas is 20SPPs, and the first and second skills are ay 60 and 160SPPs respectively).
2. Players for the underdog are given bonus SPPs based on the TV difference between the two teams.
Now, this is where I'm looking for some discussion/insight.
i) Firstly, at what level for the difference? 1SPP = 1TV seems to high, 1SPP per 10TV seems to low, so I'm (roughly) looking at 1SPP per 5TV difference.
ii) What form should the bonus SPPs be given. For example, should you get a bonus based on actions that would normally give you SPPs? Say a TV100 vs TV110. A thrower completes 2 passes - give him 2SPP bonus for the 32 complete passes?
Or - Make the bonus SPP = TV difference (one for one), which the coach can allocate in a form he sees fit (so in the example above, the thrower would get 20SPPs for the passes as normal, plus another 10SPP to be distributed between the columns)
Or- (and probably most simple) just add a EXP column to the roster sheet (Excel) and put the decided bonus in that column and add it to the total.

Giving players bonus SPPs for completing "tasks" (passing, cas, TDs) appeals the most ("Wow, you scored against the Gouged Eye on your debut?"), but very often, severe underdogs don't make many SPPs in games.
So giving bonus SPPs based on TV difference sounds a better way, but I don't want to give to many to quickly.

We like the idea of "experience" mainly because we use similar systems in Necromunda/Mordheim (and no-one shies away from the big gangs in our campaigns), and under TV is doesn't penalise the underdog with bloat, which it would have under TR.

Thoughts?
Obvious flaws?

stormmaster1 · Post by **stormmaster1** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:57 am

I think you'd have to could add a new SPP column to seperate it from completions, interceptions etc. Not sure hwat i'd call it though. bonus SPPs, experience, underdog SPPs?

alternative would be to use the SPP categories already there. the only one suitable would be MVP, so you'd have to split the bonus in10-30 TV increments.

MadLordAnarchy · Post by **MadLordAnarchy** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:58 am

I can't comment on the detail as I don't use TV but the principle is a sound one. Can you rob the Necromunda system? Experience could definitely be an addition to the standard SPPs.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:08 am

Yeah, I've often though that it would be nice to make non-scoring comps worth the equivalent of 0.5 SPPs.

But not to sidetrack, is the idea to always give the underdog team these free SPPs, or to offer him an incentive for succeding?

If the former, then I would allocate the SPPs to players who had performed best during the game. So if you had 10 SPPs to allocate, double the value of SPPs with this priority:

TDs
Cas
Ints
Comps
and then give any remaining to players still standing on the pitch at the end of the game, then players prone on the pitch (randomly of course).

So for example, the Bobstain Bumblers play the Super Spankers at 50TV down, giving them say 10 SPPs extra at the end of the game. They lost 1-3 (1-4 cas) and got no CMPs or INTs. The player who scored the TD would get an extra 3 SPPs, the player who got the CAS an extra 2, and the remaining 5 would be split one each between the players still left on the pitch at the end of the game (randomly). If only four players are left remaining, then give one of them 2 (you really learn from surviving that kind of mauling).

Simple. Effective.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:07 pm

Ooh.

Keep the current SPP system, then add category called "experience" or XP. The first time a player is put on the field during a match, he gains 5 or 10 experience or the team's underdog value (divided by 10kgc, of course), whichever is more.

Then, every 20-25 XP translates to one SPP. Or maybe every 100 XP translates to one MVP. To slow it down, make it one extra MVP per game to any player with 50 XP or more, at the cost of all his XP.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:37 pm

There was an EXP suggestion a long time ago that took the place of the MVP. The suggestion was that POST-match you would roll a D6 for each player that actually played in the match. If the die roll exceeded the players current EXP value then that player earned 1 EXP for the match. Each EXP is worth 1 SPP. 1 always failed and 6s always succeeded.

We played with it for a season and really liked it.

You could modify that so that an underdog of X-amount could subtract 1-2-3-whatever from his die roll.

Really young teams/players jump quickly to 2 or 3 and then there is some variation. It was neat that teams had a couple more skilled players earlier on but it didn't horribly speed things up and once teams were pretty skilled it just sort of smoothed things out.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:53 pm

As an alternative to MVP, that's a big boost to AG2 Linemen/Blockers and a big nerf to AG3/4 Linemen.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:58 pm

mattgslater wrote:As an alternative to MVP, that's a big boost to AG2 Linemen/Blockers and a big nerf to AG3/4 Linemen.

I didn't see that in reality and I don't see it on paper either.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:29 pm

As an alternative:
Keep the old SPP values.
Create an XP column on the SPP track.
For each full 10 points of TV diff, your team earns 1 XP-SPP.
For each XP-SPP roll randomly, just like with the MVP award.
(Yep, it will require a bit of rolling - but who gives

)
Cheers
Martin

landrover · Post by **landrover** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:51 pm

stormmaster1 wrote:I think you'd have to could add a new SPP column to seperate it from completions, interceptions etc. Not sure hwat i'd call it though. bonus SPPs, experience, underdog SPPs?

alternative would be to use the SPP categories already there. the only one suitable would be MVP, so you'd have to split the bonus in10-30 TV increments.

Experience Underdog SPPs? No thanks, it's too much like something to do with the EU, and everyone knows where THAT leads...

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:56 pm

landrover wrote:Experience Underdog SPPs? No thanks, it's too much like something to do with the EU, and everyone knows where THAT leads...

Sure do. Banana lakes and Butter fountains.