Should the other 3 "official" teams be added?

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:32 pm

(Note: This poll is completely unofficial, and has no weight with the NAF staff, I'm just interested in overall opinions.)

After this NAF forum thread (link), and similar posts on TalkBloodBowl/Specialist Games forum/others, do you think the 3 new "official" teams (Chaos Pact, Slann, Underworld) should be added to the NAF rankings?

For those that don't/can't want to read all the other thread (it's only 4 pages!), in a nutshell, all 3 teams were voted on 5-0 to be made official, but until model support is available through GW (i.e. Slann) they're not going to be added to the LRB.

Link to new teams: http://www.midgardbb.com/LRB_PBBL/2007NewTeams.pdf

Beholden · Post by **Beholden** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:03 am

Now that's what I call one sided...

- Beholden.

jmw23 · Post by **jmw23** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:50 am

This is a clear situation where Games Workshop's goals and fan's needs are directly opposed. Since the NAF is organized by fans, and isn't an official GW organ, I don't see any real reason why players can't convert their team, or buy models from a competing company. Games Workshop might not like that, but they just sell the game, they can't control how people play it.

The problem, as far as I understand it, seems to be that Jerivs and some other GW employees are still active on the rules board, and don't want to offend the parent company by releasing rules that force players to go outside GW for models. Is this right?

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:28 am

jmw23 wrote:The problem, as far as I understand it, seems to be that Jerivs and some other GW employees are still active on the rules board, and don't want to offend the parent company by releasing rules that force players to go outside GW for models. Is this right?

Little bigger than that.

Jervis is being told that he cannot add new teams to the LRB unless there are BB figures for the teams.

Should be noted this a major change from LRB 5.0 where we were told that we could add in any new stuff as long as we could easily show that 40k or WFB figures could be used to create it. (that's how you get the Ice Troll as the Yhetee was perfect (still is)).

I've seen very nice looking Slann teams done with a mix of Kroot and Lizardmen figures ... so while that argument worked great for LRB 5.0 .... JJ's superiors are saying it won't fly for LRB 6.0.

However JJ has a soft spot for these 3 new teams (ESPECIALLY the Chaos Pact team which is as much JJ's baby as the Slann is mine) ... so at the end of the day JJ allowed the BBRC to vote on them and make them official new teams with the caveat that the rules cannot be printed in an LRB until he can get figures for them. JJ also fully blessing the NAF making the teams official is just another sign that is all ways these teams are now part of BB ... its just the small detail about them actually getting printed in the LRB which is being controlled by folks above JJ.

So long story short ... this is one of those times the fans need to fix the problem that GW created. The thing is ... this is how the Lizardman team become official many moons ago ... so someday these 3 teams will probably make it into the rulebook ... just need to get GW to relax its grip for one year ... and for there to be someone like JJ in GW who sees the opportunity and seizes it to either have an LRB 7.0 come out with the teams in it without official figs or get figures made for the team by GW.

Galak

Galak

Post by **Thadrin** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:03 am

Jervis' superiors really are dense aren't they?

Do they not realise how many Slann teams they'd sell? do they not realise that it is perfectly possible to play Underworld with existing BB minis?
Do they not realise if they just did a couple of runs of the 2nd edition Chaos players they'd have that team ready to roll as well?

Its a crying shame no BB Slann were ever made (as far as I know anyway).

I say the NAF should add the teams. The rosters are out there, people have the minis (official GW or not), and none of them are going to be enormously competitive in a tourney setting, possibly excepting Pact in the tourneys where you can buy skills. The NAF is NOT GW. Thank f**k.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:08 am

I think it would be interesting to hear the reasoning behind the Nos - but I can understand why we might not get them, as it can be intimidating to post in a thread where you're so much in the minority.

Cheers
Martin

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:09 am

plasmoid wrote: I think it would be interesting to hear the reasoning behind the Nos - but I can understand why we might not get them, as it can be intimidating to post in a thread where you're so much in the minority.

My thoughts exactly.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:08 am

Indeed, but I'd like to hear the reasons to. They might be correct, in which case I could be swayed from my yes vote if the reason was a good one.

thechosengobbo · Post by **thechosengobbo** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:16 am

They're all lurking GW higher ups

one_second_of_insanity · Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:53 am

I had to vote a resounding YES (although I would be interested in hearing why some people have voted no). We are using all three of the teams in our league and they are all working quite well, I personally love the Slann and have modeled up Kroot Lizard conversions ( I bough the kroot, saurus and skink boxed sets and mixed a lot of bits up and added greenstuff plus I got a lizardmen team from the equation as well!) I have finished one model completely with the rest of the team just needing some minor greestuff work.

I like how the teams play and they are unique in their styles, a few of the coaches have grappled how to take my Slann down not with conventional defense (put players not only marking the man(frog) but where the Slann may leap to) no team is a one trick pony and I believe they offer a great diversity to what is already available.

My 2c

jmw23 · Post by **jmw23** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:07 am

Thanks for clarifying! I'm fairly new to all this, but I wonder if someone could help me understand just why GW is so heavily involved in the rules process. They created Blood Bowl, but after that, what fans do with it is really their business. Creating new teams is fair use of a product we've already purchased. GW can't come into our houses and stop us from using new rules we've made up. I can think of any number of games with fan-created leagues and support structures. True, most companies would leap to give an active fan community what it wants, but if GW won't behave that way, what are the pros and cons of going around them? Why not sever ties with GW, and do what you want?

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:40 am

This is not about wheter we can use the rules or not (they're already official, as per the BBRC), this is about wheter or not the teams should be ranked by the NAF, which has nothing to do with GW.

Mordredd · Post by **Mordredd** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:17 am

And as to why GW is so heavily involved; well they wrote the rules and own the copyright so you've got to get their blessing for a rule to be official (we can't just make our own rule book because they own the copyright).

That doesn't stop us creating our own teams, but without that official tag they will not get anything like universal acceptance (or NAF rankings).

And as for doing what we want? I'd suggest you check out one of the threads on Dwarfs or Bretonnians; you'll see that we're far from being a united, cohesive group with a shared vision of where we should go with our teams. Bottom line; individually we know what we want but as a group we haven't a clue on too many issues.

Back to the poll. I voted yes; seems reasonable to me. But I can see a reason or two for voting no. If the teams aren't in the LRB it could be fairly easy for the more casual coach to miss the fact that they are official, or that they exist at all. Also without minis some coaches who want to play them won't be able to as they lack the necessary modelling skills to convert their figs.

Igor Tahavanale · Post by **Igor Tahavanale** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:57 pm

Poll answer
I went YES too. If the rules have been playtested and passed by the BBRC then I see no reason to hold back unless JJ is giving the NAF a warning nudge to "not go there".

Obligatory rant
The only team I can see even GW has any reason for holding out on is the Slann (which would be well worth their time in making given the amount of players who would one ASAP). The figures are there already for Underworld and Pact. They're putting it all in an all-or-nothing bundle so they don't have to bother at all

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:18 pm

Igor that was more a decision by the BBRC. The bottom line is of the 3 the Slann team is the one most desired by the BBRC to be added (outside of JJ's love of Chaos Pact). If you add the other two in without the Slann you pretty much guarantee the Slann will never be looked at again. Leaving them grouped together gives the whole thing weight that is a must to get all 3 in.

Galak

Talk Fantasy Football

Should the other 3 "official" teams be added?

Should the other 3 "official" teams be added to the NAF rankings?

Should the other 3 "official" teams be added?