Forget Dwarves, what do Norse need for balance

swilhelm73 · Post by **swilhelm73** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:39 pm

So with the discussion of dwarves, I went looking through the FUMBBL data, and it pretty much proves a point I've thought for a while, namely that Norse are significantly underpowered.

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=stats ... v=&order=8

Basically, they have a worse winning percentage then Khemri and only slightly better then Rotters.

W 38 T 17 L 44

And they aren't that good at the CAS game either, coming ever so slightly above Zons. The recent BBRC change to piling on, while needed, perhaps hurt Norse more then any other team with the previous obvious PO first/second skill for BZs. One would expect that Norse will fall behind Zons in the CAS game as more games are played with the new Piling On.

So, what should Norse get to make them a team that can still be competitive after the first ten games?

1) Cheaper Rerolls - if Zons get supercheap RRs, Norse should get them too.

2) + 2 Catchers - Humans get 4 BZs and 4 CAs after all

3) Stunties for TTM - 2 Gobbos or something equivalent on the rosters (frostlings?)

4) AV8 on the BZs - they are very good, but very fragile.

5) Strength access for the Linemen

Rotogar · Post by **Rotogar** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:45 pm

Amen! The change to PO (while needed) nerfed this squad. I like the challenge of the low AV hitting team but they need *something* to bring them up to par.

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:52 pm

i like av8 lineman...keep blitzers like they are.

Baron Ollie · Post by **Baron Ollie** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:18 pm

By your reasoning, if Norse are broken, then are Khemri (1 place above) and Humans (2 places above) broken too? If a team is near the bottom of the race ladder does that necessarily mean they are broken? Are Gobbos and Flings and Chaos broken too (they all ranked lower)? What if the point of the team is not to win, but to break people first? That is really what I play Norse for... same with Chaos and Khemri. Humans are a scoring team and should win many more games than either of these, yet they are close. That would qualify more for brokenness than a team that hits first and looks for the ball later.

Look at the top of the race chart. Who is there? Woodies and Skaven. Both teams designed to score above all. And they do, so they win. Does that mean they are overpowered? I don't think so. It is just a difference in purpose. Want to win a lot? Pick Skaven or Woodies. But if you consider a 3-1 casualty ratio to be a win, then play Norse or Khemri or Chaos.

Sixpack595 · Post by **Sixpack595** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:20 pm

No Stunties!

I see no need for more catchers either. Any of the other options would work.

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:25 pm

sure feet on the 2 catchers would help

Post by **Thadrin** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:25 pm

Its worth noting that Norse are a fantastic tournament team.

I think they could stand getting 50k rerolls though.

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:31 pm

the reason i'd like seeing lineman get an av boost...they are the core of the team....once they start falling the whole team falls apart. blitzers' got jump up and once they get piling on they can hide on the ground....and pray not to be fouled.

swilhelm73 · Post by **swilhelm73** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:33 pm

Baron Ollie wrote:By your reasoning, if Norse are broken, then are Khemri (1 place above) and Humans (2 places above) broken too?[...]But if you consider a 3-1 casualty ratio to be a win, then play Norse or Khemri or Chaos

As I *specifically* noted, while both Khemri and Norse are low in the winning percentages, Norse are also bad at the CAS battle - with only +.01 CAS diff/game more then Amazons; and much of that data is with the old Piling On, meaning Norse are almost certainly even worse at winning the CAS battle then Zons...

MistWraith · Post by **MistWraith** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:48 pm

The most I would do is drop the re-roll cost down to 50k.

You can not use FUMMBL data in general to state anything, because:
1. it is an open format league where you only play who you want.
2. it has a lot of throw away teams from people who just want to try a team out.

Some of the better PBEM or a table top league would be a far better example, especially if they had a schedule.

Post by **Dave** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:18 pm

I guess Norse suffer from the same problems as Chaos Dwarves do.

Very, very VERY good in tournaments (perhaps Norse are slightly less all round) but they tend to struggle in long term league play (mostly the Norse)

personally I've done / I do pretty well in both circumstances butr I think that changing the Norse in any other way than making the RR cheaper will create a monster tournament team.

Boy .. AV8 + block makes this an unbeatable team.

longfang · Post by **longfang** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:23 pm

If they lost those stupid horned helmets they would probably lower they're centre of gravity. Much better balance.

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:27 pm

yeah but rr's don't save u from getting your a$$ pounded into the turf.

Post by **Dave** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:30 pm

they do make other plays (passing, going for it) a little less likely to fail, that should help

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:35 pm

ok so cheaper rr's make them a better tourney team but not much more for long term development