BB2020 Queries

[sann0638]

Hi all,
I've compiled a list of current ambiguities and queries in the rules: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Enjoy!

Mike

[Meradanis]

Thanks for the list.

[Mod action, split your questions into a separate thread]

[rmunn]

There's an entry in the spreadsheet that needs clarification. FAQID 28, "What if a player rolls a skill they can't use?" sounds like it's about a skill the player cannot have, which has an answer explicitly spelled out on page 71 of the rulebook. "(re-rolling if the player already has that Skill or if they roll a Skill they cannot have)". But that line is talking about a skill the player cannot use, e.g. the Ball & Chain trait doesn't forbid the Break Tackle skill, but that skill is useless for a Fanatic. I originally misread the question, so it might be worth updating it to be "a skill that's legal for them to have but is useless to them". (And in the specific case mentioned, it might be that Break Tackle should be added to the forbidden skills for a Fanatic?)

[rmunn]

Also, I disagree with the answer to FAQID 2 about Dump-Off and Blitz. The recommendation in the spreadsheet is that Dump-Off is activated at the start of the opponent's Blitz move, but the rules seem quite clear (and unambiguous) to me on this point. A Blitz is a combination of a Move action and a Block action. Dump-Off triggers on a Block action. So when the Blitzing coach declares his blitz, the other coach might know the ball carrier is going to be the target, but he can't declare the Dump-Off until the Block action is actually declared — at which point the blitzing player will be adjacent to the ball carrier, so he's going to suffer a -1 (at least) for being marked. If he could activate the Dump-Off at the start of the opponent's blitz, he could throw it while not yet being marked. But the fact that Dump-Off triggers on Block means that it won't trigger until the other player has finished moving and is about to throw the block dice.

Edit: I was wrong. I missed the part on page 59 where now you have to nominate the target of your Blitz at the moment you activate the player. And since Dump-Off triggers when the player is nominated as a target, that means it triggers before the blitzing player arrives, and is made without a -1 penalty. (Assuming there aren't any other opposition players marking the ball carrier, which there usually won't be).

[Wifflebat]

Yeah—it kinda makes me wonder if the change to Blitz wasn't made specifically to clarify (or buff) Dump Off, which seems like a bit of an odd choice. I don't mind a buff to Dump Off, but not sure I like the change to Blitz.

[Wagz]

Is it a buff to dump-off? If the pass fails, now the blitzing player can run and mark where the ball has been passed to (or even pick it up)! Even if it succeeds they can tag the catcher more easily

[Papa Sebco]

Page 74 : "players that are Prone or Stunned, or that have lost their Tackle Zone for any reason, cannot use any Skills or Traits unless otherwise stated in the Skill or Trait description".

That means stupid big guys or any hypnotised players won't be abble to use their Block or Dodge skills for example (as nothing is written in these skills descriptions about needing a Tackle Zone to use them). Is it volunteer. Will Eldril / Zolcath / Vampire teams really be a new weapon to knock down blodge players?

To be complete about that. At the end of page 26, chapter "Losing Tackle Zones", it is written "they will also be unable to use certain other Skills that require a player to have a Tackle Zone". This adds confusion, according to me, for skills without anything written about Tackle Zones in their description.

[Axtklinge]

About Diving Tackle...

Ex: Player A attempts to Dodge Out from opposing player B marking him: it takes an AG roll and the dice result is enough to Dodge Out.
The opposing coach then states that he uses the Diving Tacke skill on player B (thus placing him down and adding the -2 modifier to Player A dice result), negating the Dodge Out to player A.

My question is: If player A coach decides to use a reroll, does the (-2) modifier from the Diving Tackle still aplies?

And if it does, is there any change on this skill from the previous edition of the rules, or is it exactly the same?


Cheers,
A.

[sann0638]

Update, these are the rules our league will be playing, when we get going again: http://sawbbl.uk/wordpress/?page_id=508

[El_Jairo]

Page 74 : "players that are Prone or Stunned, or that have lost their Tackle Zone for any reason, cannot use any Skills or Traits unless otherwise stated in the Skill or Trait description".

That means stupid big guys or any hypnotised players won't be abble to use their Block or Dodge skills for example (as nothing is written in these skills descriptions about needing a Tackle Zone to use them). Is it volunteer. Will Eldril / Zolcath / Vampire teams really be a new weapon to knock down blodge players?

To be complete about that. At the end of page 26, chapter "Losing Tackle Zones", it is written "they will also be unable to use certain other Skills that require a player to have a Tackle Zone". This adds confusion, according to me, for skills without anything written about Tackle Zones in their description.

Ooh, this is probably a new way of balancing the fact that Big Guys can take Block when they save up SPP for it.
It also explains why Vampires got Animal Savagery, to tone down the Hypnotic Gaze that went to straight AG roll.

This is a good spot, yet I don't see the confusion. I do see that the rule on page 26 is redundant since page 74 says specifically that you need to have a Tackle Zone to be able to use any Skills or Traits unless they specifically work without one.

Fluff wise this make a lot of sense. Yet RAW it does not make sense (Not the case as the rules are clear on those: because Thick Skull, Regen and No Hands could possibly be negated too. Yet the latter requires an unlikely scenario.)
I already was interested in Vampires but now they are my top priority to get played. Negating block and dodge is huge.

[Steam Ball]

About ending the turn without activating everyone, FAQ says "Yes"... then reminds you about "activate and move 0" as some kind of rule compliance.

Is that a misleading suggestion? Because in some cases it really matters if you can skip activations vs must activate all (even if to move 0... because Bonehead, etc does not care, you activate, you roll).

[Jayward]

Page 74 : "players that are Prone or Stunned, or that have lost their Tackle Zone for any reason, cannot use any Skills or Traits unless otherwise stated in the Skill or Trait description".

That means stupid big guys or any hypnotised players won't be abble to use their Block or Dodge skills for example (as nothing is written in these skills descriptions about needing a Tackle Zone to use them). Is it volunteer. Will Eldril / Zolcath / Vampire teams really be a new weapon to knock down blodge players?

To be complete about that. At the end of page 26, chapter "Losing Tackle Zones", it is written "they will also be unable to use certain other Skills that require a player to have a Tackle Zone". This adds confusion, according to me, for skills without anything written about Tackle Zones in their description.

Ooh, this is probably a new way of balancing the fact that Big Guys can take Block when they save up SPP for it.
It also explains why Vampires got Animal Savagery, to tone down the Hypnotic Gaze that went to straight AG roll.

This is a good spot, yet I don't see the confusion. I do see that the rule on page 26 is redundant since page 74 says specifically that you need to have a Tackle Zone to be able to use any Skills or Traits unless they specifically work without one.

Fluff wise this make a lot of sense. Yet RAW it does not make sense because Thick Skul, Regen and No Hands could possibly be negated too. Yet the latter requires an unlikely scenario.
I already was interested in Vampires but now they are my top priority to get played. Negating block and dodge is huge.

Thick Skull specifies that it works without tackle zones, Regen doesn't happen when the player is on the pitch and so they can never have TZs. No Hands is an odd one, but since a player without TZs can't catch the ball I'm not seeing how it could come up.

Ones that did catch my eye was Stunty; it happens when the player has lost their TZs. I think we have to assume that mandatory skills have to be used, regardless of Prone/TZ loss.

But the Block and Dodge thing is a great spot.

[El_Jairo]

Thick Skull specifies that it works without tackle zones, Regen doesn't happen when the player is on the pitch and so they can never have TZs. No Hands is an odd one, but since a player without TZs can't catch the ball I'm not seeing how it could come up.

Ones that did catch my eye was Stunty; it happens when the player has lost their TZs. I think we have to assume that mandatory skills have to be used, regardless of Prone/TZ loss.

But the Block and Dodge thing is a great spot.

Yeah, I have to admit that I was trying to break the rules, after finding out about Block, Dodge and Wrestle being 'removable' by Hypnotic Gaze.

I have read over the Tackle Zone part in Thick Skull, I also didn't check when these was rolled on the casualty table.
In re-reading the part about "Catching the Ball" page 51 I found out, that it's not noted there that a player needs to have a tackle zone but it's a condition which is typically demanded before the player must attempt to catch the ball.
So I'll edit these comments.

I don't see how Stunty is negated when the player lost his Tackle Zone. They have their own Injury Table now to roll on.

The problem is that we can't assume what RAI is, we need it to be confirmed in RAW to know how the skills should work every time.

[gcoleman76]

I think we should all ask this question from bloodbowlfaq@gwplc.com

My interpretation is page 26 supercedes pg 74.....

[gcoleman76]

The more people that ask the more likely it will be covered in the next faq.