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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:43 pm 
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Babs wrote:
I've noticed no-one has commented (not to drag away from other conversation threads.) Do others agree? Are these things vague and not clearly dealt with or is it just me?
I think your comments got overlooked with so much being discussed. I agree they are not very clear on first reading the rules but after reading them again in detail I think this is answered.

Babs wrote:
For example:
In a Friendly game:
* Do Deaths count permanently on a team or do the players 'just go into the Dead and Injured box and not return for this game' as specifically written elsewhere in Deathzone?
* Do friendly games count as the game players sit out if they are suffering a MNG injury?
* Do you roll for Fan Factor after a friendly game?

You roll the D68 Casulty dice in league games. Within the league there are two types of games Friendly (none-scoring) and Competative (scoring). They are both League games. If you are playing a League Friendly game as opposed to a one-off fun game then yes Death count, you roll for Fan Factor and your star player recovers from his MNG; but the rest of the team might pick some up...

Babs wrote:
In between seasons:
* What price do rerolls cost (single price or double) when rebuilding? Do they carry over or do they need to be rebought?
* Do coaching staff / apothecaries need to be repurchased? I understand that Assistant Coaches can be gathered for free by releasing 'want to retire' players.

I agree with Dode it says create "just like you did when joining the league with the following three changes". Therefore you need 11 players and have to buy team goods (re-rolls, staff, apo) at normal cost.


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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:21 pm 
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Babs wrote:
Babs wrote:

I think there is significant lack of clarity around the new rules, as opposed to that which is carried over. So much so, that they look and feel poorly written.

For example:
In a Friendly game:
* Do Deaths count permanently on a team or do the players 'just go into the Dead and Injured box and not return for this game' as specifically written elsewhere in Deathzone?
* Do friendly games count as the game players sit out if they are suffering a MNG injury?
* Do you roll for Fan Factor after a friendly game?

In between seasons:
* What price do rerolls cost (single price or double) when rebuilding? Do they carry over or do they need to be rebought?
* Do coaching staff / apothecaries need to be repurchased? I understand that Assistant Coaches can be gathered for free by releasing 'want to retire' players.


(These are genuine questions - can anyone definitively answer them?)



I've noticed no-one has commented (not to drag away from other conversation threads.) Do others agree? Are these things vague and not clearly dealt with or is it just me?


I think all the Points are quiet clear in the rules (at least in the german version), but i agree that there should be a small chapter with a sum up of the rules for friendly matches. Had to read the rulebook twice, to recognize that no spp are earned at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:03 am 
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Dorn1981 wrote:
I think all the Points are quiet clear in the rules (at least in the german version), but i agree that there should be a small chapter with a sum up of the rules for friendly matches. Had to read the rulebook twice, to recognize that no spp are earned at all.


WHAT??? I was sure that they do. Normal SPP's and D3 winnings, as well as injuries counting (and an assumption that the game can count as a MNG game for recovery of key players - a min maxing loophole).


If nothing else, this confirms that the rules aren't as clear as they should be.

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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:30 am 
Ex-Cyanide/Focus toadie

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Babs wrote:
WHAT??? I was sure that they do. Normal SPP's and winnings, as well as injuries counting (and an assumption that the game can count as a MNG game for recovery of key players - a min maxing loophole).

If nothing else, this confirms that the rules aren't as clear as they should be.

I'm working off the app rulebook, so page numbers are off, but...
1. DeathZone page 1, League Seasons: "There are two types of game a team can play during a league: competition games and friendlies..."
This shows there is a difference between the two things.
2. DeathZone page 1, League Seasons: "competition games affect the league stats, while friendlies exist mainly to make some gold and increase your team's reputation..."
Confirmation that friendlies give gold, and possibly an oblique reference to Fan Factor.
3. DeathZone page 4, Star Player Points: "Players are able to earn Star Player Points (SPP) in Competition Matches."
Distinguishes that for SPP to be earned the match must be a competition match. The corollary is that friendlies do not give SPP.
4. DeathZone page 7, Post Match Sequence: "You must go through the following phases after each and every League Match that you play..."
Includes all matches, both competition and friendly. The section also distinguishes where only Competition Matches are applicable, such as MVP award and league points. Gold rewards are specified as d3+FAME for friendly matches instead of d6+FAME. It's reasonable to conclude that where no distinction is made the caveat at the top of the page "every League Match" applies and that both friendly and competitive games are considered.

Regarding MNG etc, no distinction is made between competitive and friendly matches. That suggests injuries and deaths count as normal. Deaths are specifically mentioned in the post-match sequence and there is no distinction made there, which means it falls under the same "every League Match" bracket as point 4 above.

So yeah, the rules are all over the place. But they are there and seem fairly clear once they are found.


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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:40 am 
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So if this is true, and no SPP's count, but injuries do, as well as halved winnings, a Friendly game seems like a fairly harsh environment for < AV9 teams.

Is this what others think?

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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:50 am 
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Agree. Not sure why anyone would play a game under those stipulations.

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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:26 am 
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Agreed. I deliberately added friendlies to our latest league to help team 'recover' from a beating and maybe gain a skill (we halve [round up] SPPs for friendlies) and halve winnings. No way I'd want to play a friendly under those rules, unless it was to immediately concede to get MNGs back.

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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:06 am 
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Wifflebat wrote:
Agree. Not sure why anyone would play a game under those stipulations.


For the fun of the game?!
I like the rules for that. You can play, but it wont help you in the league.


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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:11 am 
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Pretty sure the only SPPs you don't earn in a friendly are from MVPs. Otherwise why would they specifically state you don't get an MVP in a friendly?


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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:21 am 
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Moraiwe wrote:
Pretty sure the only SPPs you don't earn in a friendly are from MVPs. Otherwise why would they specifically state you don't get an MVP in a friendly?

Why would it say "Players are able to earn Star Player Points (SPP) in Competition Matches" if you could earn them in friendlies? The MVP comment is in the post-match phase which applies to all matches, and there are caveats there which tell you when friendlies are excepted: MVP is one of those caveats.


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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:06 am 
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Darkson wrote:
Quote:
No way I'd want to play a friendly under those rules, unless it was to immediately concede to get MNGs back.


And you would do that too, while having players with 51+ SPP in the team, taking a 50% chance of them to leave the team?

Quote:
For the fun of the game?!
I like the rules for that. You can play, but it wont help you in the league.


+1

If rules are disliked, talk to the league commissioner, use common sense and adjust the rules to your liking. It`s not that hard....really...

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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:47 am 
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DinoTitanedition wrote:
while having players with 51+ SPP in the team, taking a 50% chance of them to leave the team?.

Is that rule still in?

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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:55 am 
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Yes. On a 1-3 players leave if you forfeit a game.

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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 11:34 am 
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dode74 wrote:
Why would it say "Players are able to earn Star Player Points (SPP) in Competition Matches" if you could earn them in friendlies? The MVP comment is in the post-match phase which applies to all matches, and there are caveats there which tell you when friendlies are excepted: MVP is one of those caveats.

Just re-read it and I had missed the first line on page 21! You only get SPP's in Competative matches. Makes the whole of step 1 of the Post Match sequence pointless in friendly games.

It looks like all a friendly game gets you is Gold (D3+FAME), Fan Factor Roll, a chance for your players to die and others to recover from MNG.

You also get extra cash for redrafting the team having played the friendly. 10k + 5k for each touchdown and nothing for Cas as you cannot add them to team totals in step two as they did not award SPP's.


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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:38 pm 
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Lyracian wrote:
nothing for Cas as you cannot add them to team totals in step two as they did not award SPP's.

Where does it say SPP need to be awarded for the cas? It simply says cas.


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