Should CDs have been given Mutation access?

dode74 · Post by **dode74** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:42 pm

It is just common sense,

It's just your opinion - common sense has nothing to do with it

Thanks for the fluff links - I'll enjoy taking a read of those later.

garion · Post by **garion** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:49 pm

Corvidius wrote: Saying that, the part I have least objection to is the Claw so not overly bothered by the mutation access.

Yes but claw on its own is weak. Claw MB is really really powerful once you have it on 3+ players. Av9 teams are av 9 for a reason, which is they have short comings in other areas of their game. So to give an av9 team this weapon which is built specifically for tackling av9 teams, seems counter intuative. Especially on a team with Block, tackle and thick skull as you say, which make them the perfect anti claw team as well.

edit: way to take a quote out of context dode

MattDakka · Post by **MattDakka** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:56 pm

dode74 wrote:
It is just common sense,
It's just your opinion - common sense has nothing to do with it

Thanks for the fluff links - I'll enjoy taking a read of those later.

Other fluff links for you:
http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Chaos_Dwarf
http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hashut

dode74 · Post by **dode74** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:58 pm

From here ->http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/wiki/index.php/Blood_Bowl

Chaos Dwarfs are generally similar to their Warhammer counterparts and occupy the same territory and worshiping Hashut. Unlike the regular Warhammer world, Minotaurs are presented as a possible mutation of Chaos Dwarfs.

That suggests that other mutations are possible, does it not? The same website acknowledges the differences between WFB and BB worlds:

It is set in a slightly twisted version of the Warhammer world.

Av9 teams are av 9 for a reason, which is they have short comings in other areas of their game.

MA4, AG2. At least 2 of the players fielded will be AV7, and those will be the only AG3 ones. M is only on doubles. There are shortcomings, certainly.

garion · Post by **garion** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:04 pm

yup again, some type of cow/bull based mutation. Still no reason to give them access to chaos mutations.

no claws, two heads, tentacles etc....

dode74 · Post by **dode74** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:06 pm

garion wrote:yup again, some type of cow/bull based mutation. Still no reason to give them access to chaos mutations.

no claws, two heads, tentacles etc....

It is set in a slightly twisted version of the Warhammer world.

I'm going to reverse the question: why shouldn't they? The balance works, the fluff is arguable. In terms of gameplay, outside of theorycraft and into stats, the access doesn't give them too much capability at any TV due to the drawbacks that I've already mentioned. So what's the problem with it? Have you made a rule in your head that AV9 teams shouldn't have claw access?

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:11 pm

Chaos Dwarfs are a hark back to proper Chaos Dwarfs, none of this Big-Hat rubbish.
http://www.solegends.com/citcat88/0303chaosdwfs.htm
http://www.solegends.com/citcat88/0304chaosdwfs.htm
http://www.solegends.com/citboxes/bc6chaosdwarfs.htm

These were the ones that BB CDs were originally based on and I for one am glad to see BB going back to the decent fluff-era.

Oh, and a quick look at these showed two-heads, pre-tail and tentacle, so stick your "CDs don't mutate" in your pipe and smoke it...

MattDakka · Post by **MattDakka** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:27 pm

Darkson wrote:Chaos Dwarfs are a hark back to proper Chaos Dwarfs, none of this Big-Hat rubbish.
http://www.solegends.com/citcat88/0303chaosdwfs.htm
http://www.solegends.com/citcat88/0304chaosdwfs.htm
http://www.solegends.com/citboxes/bc6chaosdwarfs.htm

These were the ones that BB CDs were originally based on and I for one am glad to see BB going back to the decent fluff-era.

Oh, and a quick look at these showed two-heads, pre-tail and tentacle, so stick your "CDs don't mutate" in your pipe and smoke it...

Are you glad as well to see non-random chaotic mutations in Chaos teams? Is this decent fluff-era BB for you?

For me, it is not.
If CRP BB refers to BB 2nd edition/WHFB 3rd edition Chaos Dwarfs you are right, but then they should get random mutations, not spam Claw.

No issue with random mutations for me.
If you take fluff as argument you have to take every aspect of fluff.

dode74 · Post by **dode74** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:31 pm

If you take fluff as argument you have to take every aspect of fluff.

No you don't, because

It is set in a slightly twisted version of the Warhammer world.

http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/wiki/index.php/Blood_Bowl

garion · Post by **garion** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:32 pm

MattDakka wrote:
Darkson wrote:Chaos Dwarfs are a hark back to proper Chaos Dwarfs, none of this Big-Hat rubbish.
http://www.solegends.com/citcat88/0303chaosdwfs.htm
http://www.solegends.com/citcat88/0304chaosdwfs.htm
http://www.solegends.com/citboxes/bc6chaosdwarfs.htm

These were the ones that BB CDs were originally based on and I for one am glad to see BB going back to the decent fluff-era.

Oh, and a quick look at these showed two-heads, pre-tail and tentacle, so stick your "CDs don't mutate" in your pipe and smoke it...
Are you glad as well to see non-random chaotic mutations in Chaos teams? Is this decent fluff-era BB for you? For me, it is not.
If CRP BB refers to BB 2nd edition/WHFB 3rd edition Chaos Dwarfs you are right, but then they should get random mutations, not spam Claw. No issue with random mutations for me.
If you take fluff as argument you have to take every aspect of fluff.

+1, that is exactly where i stand. If they have mutations they should be random and have everything that comes with it. Or they should have big hats and no mutations.

@ Darkson, yeah I love those models too, I still have - 03 from the first link and Doom axe the dreaded from the third. Plus a bull centaur pushiong a cart with spikes etc.. attached and also a couple of swiveling mortar units. I loved how the old stuff actually moved when you moved it across the battle field. Crazy

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:41 pm

I'd love to see random mutations back, I'd also love to see mutations back that had detrimental effect to the player, as well as positive ones (a la 2nd edition).
(If I'm totally honest, I'd like to see random skills for everyone!)

Hence why we play: http://arbbl.webs.com/arbblgoeschaos.htm

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:43 pm

garion wrote:So I think thats fairly conclusive that from a fluff perspective it is incorrect.

In 2ed BB CDs could mutate.

MattDakka · Post by **MattDakka** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:45 pm

dode74 wrote:
If you take fluff as argument you have to take every aspect of fluff.
No you don't, because
It is set in a slightly twisted version of the Warhammer world.

http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/wiki/index.php/Blood_Bowl

English is not my first language but I think
that "slightly twisted" doesn't mean: "completely different".
I know that the two worlds (WHFB and BB) are set in two parallel universes, but there are too many point of contact to dismiss them so quickly, hence we can't either state that the two worlds don't share anything.
Heck, a lot of names are the same! JJ could have changed Nurgle in Plagle, Khorne in Khrone or something like that, in order to keep things clear and separated.
He didn't, he used the very same names and huge parts of fluff are the same.

garion · Post by **garion** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:51 pm

DoubleSkulls wrote:
garion wrote:So I think thats fairly conclusive that from a fluff perspective it is incorrect.
In 2ed BB CDs could mutate.

and they changed it to fit the new Chaos Dwarf fluff. where they cannot and the CD mutants are Bull Centaurs. So why change it back?

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:52 pm

Most of the BB background dates back to the late 80s and hasn't moved much compared to WFB. For example Orcs & Goblins don't come from spores... we've got female Orc & Goblin cheerleaders to prove it!

Anyway, I don't think we'd even be having the discussion if it weren't for Claw...

Talk Fantasy Football

Should CDs have been given Mutation access?

Should CDs have been given Mutation access?

Re: Should CDs have been given Mutation access?

Re: Should CDs have been given Mutation access?

Re: Should CDs have been given Mutation access?

Re: Should CDs have been given Mutation access?

Re: Should CDs have been given Mutation access?

Re: Should CDs have been given Mutation access?

Re: Should CDs have been given Mutation access?

Re: Should CDs have been given Mutation access?

Re: Should CDs have been given Mutation access?

Re: Should CDs have been given Mutation access?

Re: Should CDs have been given Mutation access?

Re: Should CDs have been given Mutation access?

Re: Should CDs have been given Mutation access?

Re: Should CDs have been given Mutation access?

Re: Should CDs have been given Mutation access?