Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Hi Bas,
This is an interesting question, especially as I am questioning the value of the beast lately.
Here are some interesting stats from FUMBBL Blackbox :

As you can see, even though Nurgle trend up at higher TV, they still don't do as well as Chaos.
Now sure Chaos Warriors are better at winning games than Nurgle Warriors(although not as good in a fight) and Beastmen are a lot better than Rotters, but I think that maybe one of the reasons they don't do as well in a matchmaking format is because of the Beast.
Even though I class him as one of the best Big Guys in the game, in this edition big guys are quite a liability.
Giving him Block and Dodge is 200TV and that's a full clawpomber.
I personally would consider firing him and doing without in an online matchmaking format if winning is your primary goal.
If you decide to keep him Blodge Guard SF is cool but thats a long way off and by the time you get that your team will be high TV and opponents will have T-C-Pombers to take care of him easily.
I guess I would take Claw on him and kill stuffs more.
Dirty Player and Wrestle are definitely the skills to choose on Rotters.

[Smeborg]

Hi Jimmy, thanks for posting some genuinely interesting stats.

Interesting to see the complete dominance of DE and WE at higher TV. Top 3 teams at 1960+ are:

DE: 60.11
WE: 56.76
'Zon: 48.76

The 8 Claw teams at 1960+ are as follows:

Chaos: 45.35
Necro: 44.81
Skaven: 41.32
CD: 40.04
Nurgle: 39.70
Norse: 36.81
U-Pact: 34.77
C-Pact: 25.52

All except the last are above the average of 34.70 at this level.

All the best.

[dode74]

Iirc that's wins as a percentage of games played as opposed to win%, which counts draws as half a win as the bbrc did it.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Yeah that's correct Dode. Makes the Elf stats even more ridiculous!
I don't like the way he worked out the average as in my opinion he should have ignored the stunty teams when calculating it.

[Smeborg]

If we look at the "Trend Change" on Jimmy's stats, we find that the top 4 trending teams lack Claw:

DE: +13.84
WE: +9.43
Vamp: +8.54
HE: +7.53

[In 6th place is Elf at +5.01.]

If we look at the 8 Claw teams in isolation, we find:

Underworld: +5.35
Chaos: +4.83
Nurgle : +4.52
Necro: +1.54
...................
Skaven: -1.26
CD: -3.65
C-Pact: -8.52
Norse: -11.36

All the best.

[Smeborg]

Question for Jimmy (and others):

It seems to me that a good many players in FUMBBL Black Box build ClawPOMB teams out of taste (they like playing with ClawPOMB teams) rather than for performance (match results). This marked preference for building ClawPOMB teams creates an environment in which some non-ClawPOMB races thrive in terms of match results (notably DE and WE). Is this a fair point of view?

All the best.

[Hitonagashi]

Question for Jimmy (and others):

It seems to me that a good many players in FUMBBL Black Box build ClawPOMB teams out of taste (they like playing with ClawPOMB teams) rather than for performance (match results). This marked preference for building ClawPOMB teams creates an environment in which some non-ClawPOMB races thrive in terms of match results (notably DE and WE). Is this a fair point of view?

All the best.

I wouldn't necessarily say that.

I think a lot of players build clawbomb teams for survival. The effect might be similar, but for example, at 2k TV in the box, my lizardman faced 19 clawonnormals teams out of 20 games (the last was a skaven). If you take a pure performance based team, you will lose your team. The players that enjoy high TV games play claw...to play elves or any non clawed race, you need to have the will to rebuild your team when you get the one game in 20 where you take 3-4 RIP/perms in one match.

It's much harder to win with a demolished team, so players take claw heavy teams because, if your tactic is "give everyone clawmbpo", it's pretty much impossible to be demolished enough to be uncompetitive (unless every single claw player dies). It's a lot easier to play with demolished chaos than demolished elves. It's a long term thing.

[Bascrebolder]

Jimmy to come back to your suggestion of claw... I do think I might actually take that for my beast. Especially since my team is too young to have a lot of decent killers yet and beacause RandomOracle advised it to me as well. Pro and dodge are still tempting too though. The thing with pro is that it will reduce the number of times I lose my TZ's...

Anyways I have been thinking on the whole idea of the Beast. You wonder if the beast is even worth it in a Nurgle team... I think Nurgle perform worse than Chaos because they are the weaker team in general. The warriors are really not better than chaos warriors and thus should never be priced 10k higher. The same goes for the RR's.

But to come back to the beast. I think he is TV inefficient if compared to warriors or beastmen. But in a Nurgle team you won't get an additional pestigor or warrior when you do not field a Beast... you get a rotter. So far I am still of the believe that a Beast is worth it on a starting team and with at least one double for block might be worth keeping till high tv. I probably won't replace a well skilled beast with a rookie at high tv though.

Now I really need to decide wether claw is the way to go for my beast. ..

Merry x-mas to you all!

[Nurgle 49èrs]

Hello, I think I posted my Nurgle-team in the wrong section, but here you can look at it:
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=35602

I don't really know how to develop after puting block on most of my players, I'm thinking about going for mighty blow on my warriors but I don't know. I have claw one of them.
With my beastmen I try to develope specific typ of players. On one of them I added sure hands, then he got +1AG and now third I picked strong arm. I really like the idea to pass with Nurgle, most of my games I have won with this tactic or simply hit hard and to foul with rotters. Beside Skaven I have most troubble with Orks (AV 9).

I would never play without my beast, one of the best big guys in the hole game, love the tentacles and to look down key players with str 3. I only hit with him if I must or if I can push players one,two times before hitting them of the side line.

[Uldreg]

The warriors are really not better than chaos warriors and thus should never be priced 10k higher.

I disagree here. -1 AG, -1 MV vs. DP, FA, and regen? I would take the nurgle warrior every time.

When it gets difficult is when you add the supporting cast. Specifically 4 (or 3 pesti's depending on whether a BC pesti is fielded on defense) Guys w/ horns ag 3, AV 8 MV 6. The 2 or 3 rotters you field tend to make the difference here for chaos' superiority, but cheap fodder is the dif for me and why i like Nurgle. But Chaos' performance at high TV is very iumpressive.

[Smeborg]

Jimmy - I well understand why you would question the effectiveness of the Beast in a ClawPOMB-heavy environment. Whereas in most tabletop leagues (and tournaments) the Beast is perhaps the best Big Guy going, in a ClawPOMB-heavy online environment the Beast is very vulnerable (like any Big Guy). This just shows how different the environments are.

For my part it would feel very strange playing Nurgle without the Beast - an altogether different proposition! Losing 1xD-Pres, 1xF-App and 1xRegen, not to mention a ST5 player, would weaken the team, although of course TV would become nice and lean (competing in leanness with any of the bash teams).

All the best.

[Aliboon]

WTF...

I'm sorry, but if ClawPOMB is a problem, then these stats really aren't showing that... Play Tackle POMB and the stats might even out...

Play High AG dodge and you'll do well given the stats....

The beast has got to be the best equaliser v low ST High AG teams, why, given the stats given would anyone not play him/it/she on a Nurgle team...!?

[RandomOracle]

WTF...

I'm sorry, but if ClawPOMB is a problem, then these stats really aren't showing that... Play Tackle POMB and the stats might even out...

Play High AG dodge and you'll do well given the stats....

The beast has got to be the best equaliser v low ST High AG teams, why, given the stats given would anyone not play him/it/she on a Nurgle team...!?

Because you rarely actually play agility teams? Those few high AG teams that play in the FUMBBL Blackbox in the high-TV range don't tend to stay there very long before they get massacred and have to rebuild. Why would you build your Nurgle team to counter them if you only face them more rarely than 1 game out of 10? Incidentally, one big reason why elf teams are doing well at high TV is that they're coached almost exclusively by good coaches (if you're not good, your team won't survive that long). Meanwhile, all kinds of coaching are trying the clawbomb teams and not all of them are focusing on winning.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

My suggestion of dropping the Beast was purely for a TV matchmaking format as I stated.
Nothing to do with Clawpomb really.
Sure a Blodge Guard SF Beast is a great player and worth his TV in a league or tournament format and obviously a better player than a Rotter, but in a TV matchmaking format he is scheduling you vs. a team with potentially 10 extra skills.
It is for this reason that I question his effectiveness in regards to being matched vs superior opponents, not his relative worth on the pitch.
I agree that playing Nurgle without the Beast doesn't feel right - he is one of the main pulls of the team and very characterful, which is why I mentioned dropping it only if you are a win at all costs kind of guy.
I agree with RandomOracle regarding agility teams in the box, because 90% of the high TV teams are bash, all the teams have to build to beat bash, which leaves them disadvantaged vs agility teams by default.

[mudster]

I started playing Nurgle in a small league (6 players total; My Nurgle, 2 Orcs, 1 Norse, 1 Skaven & 1 Chaos) and won my first 2 games so far agains Chaos and 1 Orc.

For player development, I rolled normal for 1 Nurgle Warrior, and 11 for a pestigor and a rotter. Should I take the +1 AG for the rotter since I'm already taking +1 AG for the pestigor.

Also, I have also bought another pestigor to be the safety player.

My current roster is:
1 Beast
4 Nurgle Warriors (one of them getting block),
2 Pestigor (one with AG4 from player development)
5 Rotters (one with the 11)
2 RR
2 FF

Advise?

Edit: Should I drop one of my 0 SPP rotters as well?