Hypnogaze again.

[Deathwing]

Ok, that's one more change that slipped right by me. It now appears that if you want to use hypnogaze you have to do it before any other player on your team declares an action.
So why the change? Anything to do with the vamp teams in BBMag 4? Can't believe it's just to downgrade Luthor a little, even if AndyH is intending to go with Stars at the BB.

Now awaiting the tirade from Galak (this may impact on the MBBL2 (banshees?)) about notification of changes. FWIW, I agree whole-heartedly in advance!

[Acerak]

Umm, aside from the duplication at the start of the description, there's nothing there that wasn't voted on in October and later missed in 1.0 and 1.1. It just means that a player can't use it as a "free action" - it must be used as part of his own action, after declaring.

-Chet

[Deathwing]

"The player may use the hypnotic gaze after declaring his own action, in addition to anything else the action allows him to do, but he must use the gaze before another player on his team declares an action."

I read that as ' if you declare an action with another player before you use your hypnogaze player, then you lose the ability to hypnogaze that turn'. If that's incorrect then it's damn badly worded.
If it is correct then it's a major change to how it works.

[neoliminal]

I think this was a reaction to the old way it was worded. You're right, it should just say that you can use hypnotic gaze only on your own action and that the effects wear off after you action has ended.

[Deathwing]

OK, thanks guys. Could one of you clear that up on the Fanatic BB board please?
I'm in the process of leading people up the garden path over there.

[Ghost of Pariah]

I'm sorry but I just can't believe that it was worded that poorly. I really think Andy needs to quit fiddling with the rules. It takes credibility away from the BBRC as a whole. How can i believe you guys that this is just poor wording when Andy can rewrite the rules whenever he wants?

[Acerak]

"The player may use the hypnotic gaze after declaring his own action, in addition to anything else the action allows him to do, but he must use the gaze before another player on his team declares an action."

I read that as ' if you declare an action with another player before you use your hypnogaze player, then you lose the ability to hypnogaze that turn'. If that's incorrect then it's damn badly worded.
If it is correct then it's a major change to how it works.

Deathwing, you're reading it incorrectly. The rule doesn't say "before ANY player on his team," it says, "before ANOTHER player on his team." There's a clear difference there.

And the effects don't "wear off" during the turn. They end when the turn ends.

-Chet

[Darkson]

So what your saying is I can Block/, Blitz etc. with my vamp and at the conclusion of his move use the gaze.
If, however, I say I'm going to block with another player without declaring gaze earlier I'm out of luck, and i can't use gaze on a block thrown before the vamp's had his turn?



Yes, I know this question is badly worded. English is only my native language, dammit. I'm a product of bad educaz...edukation...teaching.

[Deathwing]

Deathwing, you're reading it incorrectly. The rule doesn't say "before ANY player on his team," it says, "before ANOTHER player on his team." There's a clear difference there.

-Chet

Clear difference? Can't see it myself.
"If you take an action with another player before...
"...before another player on his team.."
The first quote is from WA, there's no real difference in 'any' and 'another' in either context.
As it stands, it's ambiguous at best, it's positively misleading at worse. If I'm reading it wrongly then so will a lot of others. Simply can't see what was wrong with the '02 Annual amendment if there's no rule change:

"...the player may use it at any time during their own action, in addition to anything else the action allows them to do.
Why the additional (misleading) text?

[Acerak]

So what your saying is I can Block/, Blitz etc. with my vamp and at the conclusion of his move use the gaze.
If, however, I say I'm going to block with another player without declaring gaze earlier I'm out of luck, and i can't use gaze on a block thrown before the vamp's had his turn?

Correct.

Deathwing - You're forgetting the very important "after declaring his own action" bit. There's a difference there. If it meant to say he had to move first...it would say it, just like Wild Animal.

The more people cry out for "better wordings," the more problems we encounter. Has anyone else realized that?

-Chet

[Darkson]

Thanks for clearing that up acerak. However, I have to agree with deathwing, it is badly worded. Maybe if it said "This skill can be used at the end of the players action" this wuld clear up any "misintereptation" of the rule.

[Deathwing]

Yeah, well..what chance do people stand who's first language isn't English? LOL!
For the record, the WA description should read "any other" rather than "another".
My point is that I was perfectly clear how HG worked in 3e, I was perfectly clear how HG worked in 2k1 (as per the Annual wording), but the current wording led me to believe that there'd been a deliberate change in how HG works since the Annual was published.
Unnecessary confusion. Simple as that.
C'est la vie...I guess.

[Darkson]

Hey, don't knock my written English, you should here me try to speak it! Us Hampshire hogs who live on the Wiltshire border have picked up some bad habits.

[Deathwing]

Hey, don't knock my written English, you should here me try to speak it! Us Hampshire hogs who live on the Wiltshire border have picked up some bad habits.

LOL! Sorry mate, my mistake (should have used quotes), was actually replying to Chet's "The more people cry out for "better wordings," the more problems we encounter." remark.

[mrcoffee182]

Ok, I've just read this through and am confused about something...

Can I use Hypogaze with more than 1 Vampire in a turn. So say my first vamp uses hypnogaze on a player and then does his thing. Can my next vamp use it on another player?