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hawca wrote:Welsh open does not use Tiers. Sign up and join us by all means.
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If it's tears your looking for, then look no further. If you don't catch me at the NAFC then find me at...

That's right Sport Fans F*** B***, delivering tears to the weak since 2516

Hopefully be able to afford to come to NAFC next year, I like the changes but it wouldn't make a difference to if I attended or not (though it dose make for better opportunity to build a fun team). For me it's more about taking part in a massive event and having the chance to play opponents I would normally never see.

I didn’t intend to kick off a number of ‘I’m pro!’, ‘I’m con!’ [the new tiering system] posts, although I suppose I should really have been switched on enough to see that coming when I forwarded my own (I hope measured?) opinion. I suppose I was just a little fatigued on the sidelines, as commonly only one half of the argument sees the light of day on TFF.

Running the NAFC is the most thankless job in Blood Bowl. I once played at a tournament where it was so dark that I literally could not see the miniatures at the other end of the board, and the weekend has been joked about for years afterwards and almost remembered as a fun quirk by most that attended. If the EMCC decide to add a penny to the cost of Mars Bars or change the washing powder used to launder the sheets on the beds, Andy will hear about it all weekend and for months afterwards. He has nothing but my support and sympathy, and as ever, I’ll be happy to help out in any way I can. He can’t win, as he inferred above.

Whilst I was / we were anti-change, I did mention the Belgium ’14 rules we’ve ended up with as the most sensible alternative when I spoke to Andy, so I’m glad the buck has stopped here for now. I don’t blame him for making a change, this is one of those subjects where people that are pro let you know about it; even the NAF newsletter chose to dedicate more words to the variety of races at the 2015 event than recognising those that worked hard to facilitate members enjoying themselves. It must seem like a large push, even if perhaps it's not.

I’m itching to re-tread the standard loop and answer Brendan’s points that I think are off-base (I’m certainly not conservative in mindset for my own sake, more complexity benefits me), but I think it would probably be far more constructive and helpful not to. Happy to continue the conversation at any bar of anyone’s choosing, but until then we have a ruleset, and that’s how it is. I’m sure Andy would rather this thread be a hype train than a build-up dogged by questions. Apologies for any disruption caused.

Purplegoo wrote:I didn’t intend to kick off a number of ‘I’m pro!’, ‘I’m con!’ [the new tiering system] posts, although I suppose I should really have been switched on enough to see that coming when I forwarded my own (I hope measured?) opinion. I suppose I was just a little fatigued on the sidelines, as commonly only one half of the argument sees the light of day on TFF.

Running the NAFC is the most thankless job in Blood Bowl. I once played at a tournament where it was so dark that I literally could not see the miniatures at the other end of the board, and the weekend has been joked about for years afterwards and almost remembered as a fun quirk by most that attended. If the EMCC decide to add a penny to the cost of Mars Bars or change the washing powder used to launder the sheets on the beds, Andy will hear about it all weekend and for months afterwards. He has nothing but my support and sympathy, and as ever, I’ll be happy to help out in any way I can. He can’t win, as he inferred above.

Whilst I was / we were anti-change, I did mention the Belgium ’14 rules we’ve ended up with as the most sensible alternative when I spoke to Andy, so I’m glad the buck has stopped here for now. I don’t blame him for making a change, this is one of those subjects where people that are pro let you know about it; even the NAF newsletter chose to dedicate more words to the variety of races at the 2015 event than recognising those that worked hard to facilitate members enjoying themselves. It must seem like a large push, even if perhaps it's not.

I’m itching to re-tread the standard loop and answer Brendan’s points that I think are off-base (I’m certainly not conservative in mindset for my own sake, more complexity benefits me), but I think it would probably be far more constructive and helpful not to. Happy to continue the conversation at any bar of anyone’s choosing, but until then we have a ruleset, and that’s how it is. I’m sure Andy would rather this thread be a hype train than a build-up dogged by questions. Apologies for any disruption caused.

none taken, and as ive always said I will listen to any advise given, this doesn't mean I will act on it. or part of it.

I spoke with Joe and he is pro no tier but said something very interesting in that once he would look for skill or team combos others have not seen, yet now so many are cookie cutter builds. I know Phil was against yet I also know the Belgium rules still let the competitive be and add some thing different. these are but two views among many ive tried to fit all into one. as ive said before if advise is offered with good reason, im all ears, saying I like or i dont neither helps or otherwise with future. (yes im thinking future already)

I hope that the change is a breath of fresh air that all will get what they want and need from to make the NAFC what it used to be in 180+ coaches. with the new rules and release lets make this special.

Purplegoo wrote: Running the NAFC is the most thankless job in Blood Bowl. I once played at a tournament where it was so dark that I literally could not see the miniatures at the other end of the board, and the weekend has been joked about for years afterwards and almost remembered as a fun quirk by most that attended. If the EMCC decide to add a penny to the cost of Mars Bars or change the washing powder used to launder the sheets on the beds, Andy will hear about it all weekend and for months afterwards. He has nothing but my support and sympathy, and as ever, I’ll be happy to help out in any way I can. He can’t win, as he inferred above.

Whilst I was / we were anti-change, I did mention the Belgium ’14 rules we’ve ended up with as the most sensible alternative when I spoke to Andy, so I’m glad the buck has stopped here for now.

Two points to make: Sure, running a big event will make someone complain about something, but I am certain the vast majority is happy and thankful for the job being done. And I assume Hawca is well aware of this. So "thankless" and "can`t win", well that seems a bit harsh. R

Secondly I wouldn`t be too scared to discuss the pros and cons of the rule set. We share the love for the game, and opinions will differ on what is the most fitting format to compete in. That is cool and to be expected. No feathers should be ruffled. Your concern is that making rule sets more complicated will confuse newbies and favor veterans. Fair point, but the rule set chosen for the NAFC seems simple enough wouldn`t you say? The question is if one wants a rule set where 50% of participants choose WE, Undead or Lizards, or not. Is diversity really a goal one should thrive for? Some would say "of course" other would say "the more people playing the assumed best races the better and more competetive fun we can have." There is no "right" and "wrong" here.

As for what is "canon" that is an interesting debate, and personally as a newbie in NAF I find it puzzling that rules that clearly favor some races should somehow be canon. Wood Elves with 1.1 and 3 skills are...well, really good. I really like the EuroBowl2016-rules, as more teams can "close the gap" to the Woodies with 6 skills than with 3. Just my opinion, of course

Also: Will for sure try and make it to this one! May1 is Labour Day and Public Holiday in Norway, so it seems very likely. mubo: I have a bone to pick with you!

Purplegoo wrote:If the EMCC decide to change the washing powder used to launder the sheets on the beds, Andy will hear about it all weekend and for months afterwards.

Funny how sometimes something said in jest can turn out to be so true, if the EMCC did change the washing powder used to launder the sheets on the beds it could literally ruin my weekend with the allergic reaction I and perhaps one or two others who attend NAFC who are allergic to certain washing powders could suffer. An example that was used to trivialise some complaints could in fact be extremely important to other people than the author, being aware of that is a small step to becoming as tolerant as a Scotsman

Looking forward to next years tiered NAFC.

Easy money this, isn't it?

Happy to talk about it over a drink on the weekend, Straume (that is, if we've nothing else more interesting to be doing; I suspect we will have). It's much more nuanced than that, but this isn't the place.

There's nothing in there about multi skills on single player, can we assume that it's max one skill per player as previous years?
Personally I like the changes

Yeah I'm 100% it's one skill per player.

Love it! Tiers = more metagaming = more pre-tourney fun.

Nice that GW are prepared to say nice things about the NAF. Any chance of them letting us back into Warhammer World? I guess the big problem would be non-GW minis, but it is a great location.

PeteW wrote:Love it! Tiers = more metagaming = more pre-tourney fun.

Nice that GW are prepared to say nice things about the NAF. Any chance of them letting us back into Warhammer World? I guess the big problem would be non-GW minis, but it is a great location.

the thought has crossed our minds, slowly one step at a time with the release etc.

hawca wrote:

PeteW wrote:Love it! Tiers = more metagaming = more pre-tourney fun.

Nice that GW are prepared to say nice things about the NAF. Any chance of them letting us back into Warhammer World? I guess the big problem would be non-GW minis, but it is a great location.

the thought has crossed our minds, slowly one step at a time with the release etc.

I suspect getting back into Warhammer World is one of those things that is nice in principle but probably not that great in reality.

I hold the current location up as the ideal venue for a large Blood Bowl tournament due to it's proximity of accommodation, tournament venue, bars, restaurant etc.

Is there equally convenient accommodation at Warhammer World?

Garrick wrote: I hold the current location up as the ideal venue for a large Blood Bowl tournament due to it's proximity of accommodation, tournament venue, bars, restaurant etc.

Is there equally convenient accommodation at Warhammer World?

Strange, I've not been to the last 2 NAFC because I don't like the venue, its:

Ran out of (Very expensive) beer (twice)
Served poor food, both times I did go there
Turned coaches away as it had overbooked, using the pretence of having an "electrical problem" in one wing.... whilst booking a wedding party into that wing.
Screwed up our room booking, then when we produced the confirmation email told us the staff member who sent it had left.... then asked Canteloup " do you actually need a disabled room" ?? Really??
I also find the venue lacking in atmosphere.

So, I don't thinks its great value for money, I also question why if we are not at WH World why we are in Nottingham at all? Birmingham offers similar conferencing centres, has better road / rail & air links and is more central.

However I do welcome a shakeup in the rules, its about time the "Flagship" event got a better ruleset and I hope everyone who attends will have a great weekend.

glowworm wrote:

Garrick wrote: I hold the current location up as the ideal venue for a large Blood Bowl tournament due to it's proximity of accommodation, tournament venue, bars, restaurant etc.

Is there equally convenient accommodation at Warhammer World?

Strange, I've not been to the last 2 NAFC because I don't like the venue, its:

Ran out of (Very expensive) beer (twice)
Served poor food, both times I did go there
Turned coaches away as it had overbooked, using the pretence of having an "electrical problem" in one wing.... whilst booking a wedding party into that wing.
Screwed up our room booking, then when we produced the confirmation email told us the staff member who sent it had left.... then asked Canteloup " do you actually need a disabled room" ?? Really??
I also find the venue lacking in atmosphere.

So, I don't thinks its great value for money, I also question why if we are not at WH World why we are in Nottingham at all? Birmingham offers similar conferencing centres, has better road / rail & air links and is more central.

However I do welcome a shakeup in the rules, its about time the "Flagship" event got a better ruleset and I hope everyone who attends will have a great weekend.

Very true, I would rather be in Warhammer World, if not then don't see why we can't move.

If Games Workshop run another event like this year at around the same time then I think I'd be tempted to give it a go instead this time around. Also if people could keep their in game arguments strictly verbal that would be great (although not ideal, Sorry Spence), the last thing i need is to go out due to a dice to the knee thrown angrily by a coach on a different table. Perhaps a ban on Prizes for Coaches who have extreme outbursts or some other form of corporal punishment would be in order.