The Ogre Spike! and NAF tournaments

[Purplegoo]

Dear members,

Following the release of the Ogre Spike! Journal today, this post clarifies how we understand some of the material in this book should be used at NAF tournaments.

As ever, when new rules are released between NAF Annual Reviews, TOs are free to include any of the new material at their tournaments, so long as they advertise it widely ahead of time. This is especially true in the case of optional rules such as the ‘Slave Giant’ inducement, which should not be considered as included by default.

The ‘Disposable’ skill has caused some confusion. In essence, the skill means that coaches need to buy Gnoblars for their roster as usual, however the players have a value of zero when then calculating Ogre Team Value (not including additional skills). As such, at the majority of resurrection NAF tournaments, this skill will have no impact. Team Value is not used, and resurrection tournaments feature no inducement phase. Like Nurgle’s Rot, this skill is to be used in the progression format.

If members are disappointed by this interpretation, we remind them that there is nothing stopping TOs from giving Ogres some extra help within their tiering systems should they wish, so long as the boosts are in keeping with the NAF Tournament Approval document.

As with all new material, this will be reviewed as part of the Annual Review process, published 1 November.

[Itchen Masack]

So to confirm, where a resurrection tourney ruleset gives Team building in GP, then disposable is effectively ignored and where it states only TV, disposable is in effect?

I go to a number of tourneys where GPs are not mentioned, only TV.

[Purplegoo]

I appreciate it is possible to talk around this in a number of ways, and to wrangle how teams are composed (not using the word ‘wrangle’ negatively) in the format. It is our interpretation that Disposable won’t be in effect whatever the wording of the team composition bit of a resurrection rulespack; there is no inducement phase at a resurrection tournament, no requirement to resolve TV game to game. You still have to buy a team for a budget before game one.

All that said, it’s pretty trivial for a TO to confer the same level of benefit to an Ogre team in their ruleset that Disposable would give if in effect. We’re just giving the advice on the specifics of the skill.

(Edit: I’m at a tournament this weekend, so further questions will be answered in the week.)

[Bakunin]

Again good luck hosting a naf tourney at a gw store or a place where people execpt to play by the rules, and are not naf old boys.

This shows nafs biggest problem, you can't call yourself a democratic organization and have a paying membership and have the membership without any influence at all. If the naf was just a volunteer run website, you could do what ever you want. The above harsh ruling is not okay.

You could play with it easily and keep a straight line on not banning skills, instead of the above.:

"Disposable: After finishing using the 1,000,000 gold coins, when creating a roster. The coach with disposable skill, gets a second inducement step to spend gold coins on inducements that must also be rostered for all games. I.e. a Ogre team with 6 snotlings gets 120,000k that can be used on inducements separately form the normal 1,000,000 gold coins spend on team building, but must still be rostered."

[Purplegoo]

We have not banned the skill, we have asked that it be used properly as per the most sensible interpretation of the rule as written. Changing skill descriptions isn’t allowed at NAF sanctioned Blood Bowl tournaments, so we would not do that. That said, workarounds if you’d like to incorporate a similar level of buff to Disposable are trivial.

[lunchmoney]

Again good luck hosting a naf tourney at a gw store or a place where people execpt to play by the rules, and are not naf old boys.

Ok, I play at a GW event with a team built from 1.1M gold. I take Ogres and 120k is spent on gnobs (along with the rest being spent on the rest of the team).
I've still spent 1.1M as have my opponents.
No inducements are calculated pre match so the fact that my team is only 980tv is irrelevant.
No rule is missing or broken.

[Danny]

If there is no inducement phase then how are flings using chefs and goblins bribes when they are inducements?

[Purplegoo]

They are rostered inducements, not inducements generated during the inducement phase of a progression game.

[Jip]

I think this is the sensible way to go and all the noise is just grinding axes, rather than logical argument. As well as that, I’m not sure this is worth all the noise because there’s still only going to be one or two mad bastards playing Ogres at tournament - NAF sanctioned or otherwise.

However..., while we’re talking about rules and their application (and just so it’s not just a Facebook comment), can I ask how you’d feel about changing Nurgle’s Rot in NAF tournaments since Games Workshop have started amending the rule for most of their recent tournaments (inc. the recent NAF sanctioned one); this is from the Bugman’s Blood Bowl Belter rulepack:

“Nurgle's Rot: Nurgle team coaches may attempt to recruit one Rotter per game should the Lasting Injury roll be 61-68 DEAD as a result of a Block, Blitz or Foul action by a player with the Nurgle's Rot skill, if that player cannot be revived by an Apothecary, and assuming they are ST4 or less and do not have the Regeneration skill, the Nurgle coach may place a normal, rookie Rotter in the Reserves box of their dugout. This Rotter is kept for the remainder of that game and lost before the next.

Note that this is a change to the normal Nurgle’s Rot skill rule, allowing Nurgle coaches to benefit from the free player during their current game.”

I use that iteration for a local, non-NAF, tournament I’ve run for the past couple of years, but could it be something the NAF would look at, now we’re pals with Games Workshop again?

[Purplegoo]

Theoretically, you aren’t allowed to change skills and be NAF sanctioned under the ‘Blood Bowl’ banner. That said, we allow house rules when we are sanctioning events every day (literally), and we apply subjective common sense to those house rules we see, if our rules don’t cover TO creativity (and that’s impossible, because that’s limitless). So if you wanted to write a sentence that meant the same thing as the above without explicitly changing the skill, I’m sure that would be fine. There is plenty of precedent for themed events having little bonuses for one team or another, and this feels like a tiny little change that no one would kick off about and would be within the spirit of what we’re trying to achieve, rather than deleting or rewriting Tackle because you don’t want Dwarfs at your tournament, or something.

If the above text was sanctioned, we probably missed it. Stupid human beings with eye failures. But I expect nobody died, and again, it’s within the spirit of the thing.

We’re always friends with everyone. Or at least, we try to be. Even when making posts you know can’t possibly please 100 % of members.

[Jip]

If the above text was sanctioned, we probably missed it. Stupid human beings with eye failures. But I expect nobody died, and again, it’s within the spirit of the thing.

If nobody died, the rule change was a waste of time.

Cool, cheers for the clarification. Keep fighting the good fight, I’m team NAF all the way.

[lunchmoney]

Off topic, but the Nurgle thing was mentioned in the TFF thread http://talkfantasyfootball.org/viewtopi ... 59&t=45832

[yogi]

They are rostered inducements, not inducements generated during the inducement phase of a progression game.

Just out of interest why can’t this be rostered inducement and is rostered inducements a house rule in its self? I It does feel a bit pick and choose as what can be rostered as we progress with new rules. It’s not going to radically make one of the worst races in the game the best. I am completely down with the rules are set and discussed and decided once a year and this one has past. I’m glad it’s TO based so ultimately it’s not a big deal because the option will be there in some events.

[Purplegoo]

Hi Yogi,

We’re not attempting to be buzz kills, here. The primary reason the NAF has rules at all is to make sure you (and every other attendee) show up on a Saturday morning and know what the deal is. The last thing we want is Coach A showing up and thinking Disposable means X, Coach B showing up thinking it means Y, and a TO being in the middle of an argument (an argument that he sends the two coaches off having ruled upon, and then at the next event the TO has a different opinion). We thought it worth clarifying this because there has been lots of confusion online and we’re trying to avoid situations like those I’ve just described.

You’re right that Disposable isn’t going to break the game and make Ogres unstoppable winning machines. We aren’t trying to stop TOs buffing Ogres at their events. All we’re saying is, do it in a different way than applying the skill in a different way to how it is written as most people understand it. I don’t think that’s too harsh or difficult. Invent a house rule to buff them. Give them more starting money. In Spain, they commonly get a free Apo or Bribe, or whatever. But don’t explicitly change the skill description, that’s all we’re asking / applying. This way, everyone knows the score on a Saturday morning.

Apologies if that doesn’t make sense. I’m in Belgium, and I’m four big boy beers in already. I hope autocorrect has saved me.

[lunchmoney]

You're more coherent than I'd be after 4 big boy beers