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 Post subject: The NAF - Live(ish) Debate Upcoming
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:53 pm 
Star Player
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Hi all,

The NAF has been the centre of many a heated discussion recently, whether the reason is an unusual tournament being sanctioned, or new races being added to their approved list.

Someone could spend many hours trawling through the sea of threads, posts, replies etc online. I know I did when I decided to see the arguments people were making about the new races. Unfortunately, I left with a headache and a bit of a sour taste in my digital mouth.

So, with that, I've decided to take a different spin on the debate. I run a podcast, as many of you know. We're going to do a special episode featuring prominent guests on both sides of the debate, with some being present during the episode, and some responding with written questions, which will be discussed. Our aim is to take the points that people make, whether extolling the NAF or criticising it, or both, and present them all together in one place that people can respond immediately to.

This thread is not the place for debating the NAF, so please don't do that here.

What I want is for people who have questions they want answered to ask them here, or in PM to me. People who would like to feature, let me know. I'll do what I can.

I'll let everyone know when it's up.

-Twelf

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 Post subject: Re: The NAF - Live(ish) Debate Upcoming
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:16 pm 
Legend
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Last edited by frogboy on Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The NAF - Live(ish) Debate Upcoming
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:23 am 
The Glow-Father
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Twelfman wrote:

This thread is not the place for debating the NAF, so please don't do that here.

-Twelf


@ FrogBoy, which part of that did you not quite understand??

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 Post subject: Re: The NAF - Live(ish) Debate Upcoming
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:44 am 
Rookie
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Can the NAF make more old style Block dice? Have they asked GW?
(that might drive me to keep my membership current)


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 Post subject: Re: The NAF - Live(ish) Debate Upcoming
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:21 pm 
Star Player
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ramchop wrote:
Can the NAF make more old style Block dice?

no, the NAF is not allowed to do that

ramchop wrote:
Have they asked GW?

yes, the NAF asked GW and the answer was "no"


....but is is still possible to get older versions of the block dice when you renew your membership, just no new color
(available colors are: red, yellow, light blue, light green, grey marble)

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 Post subject: Re: The NAF - Live(ish) Debate Upcoming
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:52 pm 
Super Star
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I have a few questions.

What is the NAF's attitude towards the way in which tournaments appear to have shifted in the past year or so towards more custom rule sets that majorly change the way in which the game works? I speak specifically regarding tournaments such as 'stunty only' ones not being given sanctioning but others that favour one team or another to a huge degree being allowed. It isn't NAF legal to remove a skill from a tournament but it is allowed to make a skill prohibitively expensive in some cases. Things such as these are bound to skew the tournaments towards certain teams and skew the rankings in turn. These kinds of events are becoming ever more popular with tournament organisers so is it time to adopt a 'classic' and 'custom' category system or something similar to differentiate between quite standard affairs and the more bonkers end of the spectrum?

How does the NAF see it's relationship with GW developing going forward? Some things being adopted by the NAF and others not will no doubt cause a divide so how is this going to be dealt with going forward? Of course it will be hard for the NAF to keep up with GW as they want to keep creating products and there will more than likely be a lot to keep up with over the coming years. Does the NAF have a strategy for this? Is there scope for the NAF to liaise with GW in order to get ahead of the ball in terms of what is being developed and how it will be adopted?

Regardless of how the voting went on the Khorne / Bretonnian vote, the reasoning for it that I have seen appears to have been to keep tournaments in line with Cyanide. We currently have the risk of a PC version of the game with a certain set of rules/rosters, tournaments with another set, and an official product with another set again. Is this at odds with what should be happening at the current moment in time?

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 Post subject: Re: The NAF - Live(ish) Debate Upcoming
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:10 pm 
Da Spammer
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#1. Why, at a time when GW is getting involved in the game again, move away from GW? "Just because database" isn't really a good reason.

#2 Why add a roster that isn't even currently supported by it's "home" format? Your argument seemed to say it would be confusing for a new player, coming from Cyanide, if they couldn't play a race they used, but that's exactly what you've done with Khorne (BB2 players), Brets (BB1 players) and Slann (any non-TT player).

#3 What happens if/when BB3 comes in (from Cyanide or anyone else) and they drop Bret for xxxx?

#4 What happens if/when GW release their own version of Khorne/Bret that has little or no relationship to the Cyanide rosters?

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 Post subject: Re: The NAF - Live(ish) Debate Upcoming
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:32 am 
Da Spammer
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#5 On what authority, both within the NAF charter and morally, are you calling a vote that was advertised as "advisory" suddenly becoming binding? At no point during the vote and discussion was there any indication given that this was a possibility. Voting on "interest" is not the same as voting on "yes/no", especially as the question and committee were so fuzzy on what they actually meant (one committee member thought optional, one thought mandatory).

#6 Given that Andy Hoare has given his backing for the app teams to be used when do we get to vote on those 4 (which have more legitimacy as GW teams than either Khorne or Brets)?


P.S. If possible, could someone transcribe the podcast? I can't listen to podcasts (any podcast, not just BB), same as I can't listen to audiobooks.

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SWTC 2017 Stunty Cup winner - never again (until next time!)

Khorne and Bretonnian? Sorry, those don't exist - bring a real roster.


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 Post subject: Re: The NAF - Live(ish) Debate Upcoming
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:25 am 
Rookie
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Is there a better way to deal the issue of playing against non NAF members in NAF sanctioned tournaments not counting towards your ranking? presumably something like counting non NAF members as being a constant 150. or (possibly wrongly) requiring all participants to be members

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 Post subject: Re: The NAF - Live(ish) Debate Upcoming
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:48 pm 
Da Spammer
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stowelly wrote:
Is there a better way to deal the issue of playing against non NAF members in NAF sanctioned tournaments not counting towards your ranking? presumably something like counting non NAF members as being a constant 150. or (possibly wrongly) requiring all participants to be members

I'm not the NAF, but those have been answered before (on here possibly, but definetly on the NAF forum).

1. Non-NAF being a constant 150 - simple answer: this would break the zero-sum on the rankings (you gain the same points as your opponent loses, meaning the sum of the rankings stays the same).
Longer answer: non-NAF Joe Bloggs plays loads of games with Wood Elves, and wins most of them, why would you still rank him as 150?

2. Some tournaments already do that, but that's an individual TOs choice, as there's nothing in the NAF rules that say everyone must be in the NAF to play at a NAF tournament.
Should also be pointed out that it's in the NAF rules (as we've never been asked to vote on it's removal) that a NAF member can elect to not have their games ranked:
Quote:
No member has to play for Coach Rating points. If he or she views a tournament ruleset particularly disadvantageous to his/her chosen race, they can simply opt out of putting Coach Rating points on the line. Note that this has to be for the entire tournament, they can't pick and choose which games will count for rankings, and it has to be declared prior to the opening game, i.e: pre tournament not during or post tournament.

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Khorne and Bretonnian? Sorry, those don't exist - bring a real roster.


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 Post subject: Re: The NAF - Live(ish) Debate Upcoming
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:57 pm 
Legend
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stowelly wrote:
Is there a better way to deal the issue of playing against non NAF members in NAF sanctioned tournaments not counting towards your ranking? presumably something like counting non NAF members as being a constant 150. or (possibly wrongly) requiring all participants to be members

As a TO I cover the membership fee for new NAF members at my events (just absorb it in the costs). That way they get shiny dice and I know everyone is a NAF member :)

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